R2 at LA Auto Show 2025 (photos & videos)

[Ostrichsak]

The "fact" is that there is no concrete definition of SUV, but any source you look at will list higher ground clearance and off-road capability as two of the distinguishing features. That's not a MY.

And the "fact" is that true SUVs have gradually moved more towards sedans over the years, while sedans have moved towards crossovers/SUVs.

MY is a passenger carrier. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not a SUV.

Let me suggest that YOU are the one with the weird view that the MY is a SUV and can be compared to an old-school Wagoneer or Bronco or Scout or 4Runner.

The "dumbing-down" of the SUV over the years is one of the main reasons I found the R1 so attractive.

So if you put the word "fact" in quotes like that does that make it not really a fact? If so, these statements seem accurate to me. Like saying that the NY Jets are a "good" football team.

Listen, you can argue all you want (and I'm sure you will) about how much better the R2 is than the Model Y. That's largely opinion and others may challenge that opinion. That's fine. I'm not debating that.

Saying that these two vehicles aren't both midsize SUVs is factual incorrect. The word class used in the automotive segment has a very specific meaning and by that meaning they're in the same class.

Any magazine, insurance company or online car sales website will list them BOTH as SUVs. Midsize SUV if they want to get really specific and narrow things down. Whether we like it or not, a Dodge Journey is classified as an SUV even though we all know it's a minivan. Just like when the Honda Ridgeline came out it was listed as a pick-up truck. We all know it wasn't capable of doing pick-up truck things since it was a minivan w/a pick-up truck bed but that didn't change the classification.

These stupid made up classes like "Adventure This" and "Outdoor That" are simply marketing terms and mean nothing otherwise. Both the Model Y and the R2 are SUVs no matter how loudly you shout that they aren't. People are interested in one will directly compare it to the other and determine which best meets their individual needs. That's how things work in the real world where debate about opinions isn't the rule of law. Thankfully.

Check yourself.

No, you.

Sponsored

 

[macb00kemdanno]

The "fact" is that there is no concrete definition of SUV, but any source you look at will list higher ground clearance and off-road capability as two of the distinguishing features. That's not a MY.

And the "fact" is that true SUVs have gradually moved more towards sedans over the years, while sedans have moved towards crossovers/SUVs.

MY is a passenger carrier. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just not a SUV.

Let me suggest that YOU are the one with the weird view that the MY is a SUV and can be compared to an old-school Wagoneer or Bronco or Scout or 4Runner.

The "dumbing-down" of the SUV over the years is one of the main reasons I found the R1 so attractive.

But all of what you said doesn't change the fact that even RJ has declared the Model Y as its main competitor and that it's dimensionally very close in footprint. They target the same segment: mid-sized crossover.

I "get" your comparison of Broncos or 4Runners as badass, off-road-capable vehicles, but what percentage of people are using them for that purpose? All the Rivians, Broncos, 4Runners, etc, that I see are squeaky clean grocery getter pavement queens that have seen a dusty dirt road at best.

My wife has a Model Y, and she uses it basically as a glorified station wagon (or passenger carrier, as you call it), which replaced her '17 Subaru Outback. I have an R2 reservation, and it will also be used as a glorified station wagon, shuttling the kids to school and back and running errands. I have no intention of EVER taking it off-road, but I simply like it for the way it looks. And I'd argue that for the majority of people, how the R2 looks and drives will be vastly more important than if it's a "real SUV" or not.

Rivian is selling the "aspirational" dream of their vehicles being used regularly as adventure beasts. Everyone and their grandma wants to sell that image from the Honda Passport Trailsport, to the Hyundai Santa Fe XRT, to the Toyota RAV4 Overland. It's what sells. Besides, with the stock suspension (and not the air suspension like the R1S), nobody in their right mind is going to be doing serious rock climbing with the ground clearance on an R2. It probably has about as much ground clearance as a Subaru Outback.

Everyone wants to imagine themselves doing burnouts in the dirt and fording streams like they do in the TV commercials. But at the end of the day, what are they spending 99% of their time doing: PAVEMENT QUEEN And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that -- which is why RJ is targeting the Model Y.

 

[VandalSibs]

Besides, with the stock suspension (and not the air suspension like the R1S), nobody in their right mind is going to be doing serious rock climbing with the ground clearance on an R2. It probably has about as much ground clearance as a Subaru Outback.

R2 has over an inch more ground clearance than a standard Outback (9.8 inches to 8.7). If you pony up for the Wilderness trim on the Outback, then it's close... but the R2 is still higher by .3 inches.

 

[madhat]

The term SUV has been thrown around a lot in this thread, but no mention of the term CUV. I thought all car like SUVs were CUVs... has the industry dropped that term?
I definitely see the MY as a CUV just like our CX5.
I always thought the big differentiator between the two is CUV = unibody and SUV = body on frame. The Rivian is seemingly in between the two, so it makes sense to me to be cross shopped with a MY and a 4Runner.

And really, crying about it being silver is silly. It's a prerelease vehicle. It's not like there's only going to be one color. And if there was, wrap it.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

But all of what you said doesn't change the fact that even RJ has declared the Model Y as its main competitor and that it's dimensionally very close in footprint. They target the same segment: mid-sized crossover.

I "get" your comparison of Broncos or 4Runners as badass, off-road-capable vehicles, but what percentage of people are using them for that purpose? All the Rivians, Broncos, 4Runners, etc, that I see are squeaky clean grocery getter pavement queens that have seen a dusty dirt road at best.

My wife has a Model Y, and she uses it basically as a glorified station wagon (or passenger carrier, as you call it), which replaced her '17 Subaru Outback. I have an R2 reservation, and it will also be used as a glorified station wagon, shuttling the kids to school and back and running errands. I have no intention of EVER taking it off-road, but I simply like it for the way it looks. And I'd argue that for the majority of people, how the R2 looks and drives will be vastly more important than if it's a "real SUV" or not.

Rivian is selling the "aspirational" dream of their vehicles being used regularly as adventure beasts. Everyone and their grandma wants to sell that image from the Honda Passport Trailsport, to the Hyundai Santa Fe XRT, to the Toyota RAV4 Overland. It's what sells. Besides, with the stock suspension (and not the air suspension like the R1S), nobody in their right mind is going to be doing serious rock climbing with the ground clearance on an R2. It probably has about as much ground clearance as a Subaru Outback.

Everyone wants to imagine themselves doing burnouts in the dirt and fording streams like they do in the TV commercials. But at the end of the day, what are they spending 99% of their time doing: PAVEMENT QUEEN And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that -- which is why RJ is targeting the Model Y.

People are confused about the different ways two cars are competitors. There’s competition in branding. There’s competition in product promise (features & capabilities). There’s competition in pricing. All and any can be true. There isn’t one “my way or the highway” position that is more right. Context of RJ’s comment is being ignored and twisted. MY is R2’s biggest competition because MY is the incumbent leader by A) time on market, B) volume, C) price range and D) the closest rival that is truly software defined and from another pure EV manufacturer. Being competitors doesn’t make the products the same point per point.

Ignore facts and believe whatever you want. All this arguing is moot and makes no impact on sales performance of either.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

R2 has over an inch more ground clearance than a standard Outback (9.8 inches to 8.7). If you pony up for the Wilderness trim on the Outback, then it's close... but the R2 is still higher by .3 inches.

But if we're talking Outback Wilderness (which is the off-roady version), we're still looking at 9.5 inches versus 9.8 inches. That's a wash IMHO. But you have to consider the breakover angle. The R2 has a wheelbase of over 115 inches, and the Outback is around 108 inches. The R2 will likely have a higher chance of scraping its underbelly, AFAICT.

Even so, the only people who are going to be rock climbing these things stock are auto journalists on first-drive reviews on manufacturer-sponsored trips on specifically curated trails to make sure they don't get embarrassed.

 

[Sportstick]

People are confused about the different ways two cars are competitors. There’s competition in branding. There’s competition in product promise (features & capabilities). There’s competition in pricing. All and any can be true. There isn’t one “my way or the highway” position that is more right. Context of RJ’s comment is being ignored and twisted. MY is R2’s biggest competition because MY is the incumbent leader by A) time on market, B) volume, C) price range and D) the closest rival that is truly software defined and from another pure EV manufacturer. Being competitors doesn’t make the products the same point per point.

Ignore facts and believe whatever you want. All this arguing is moot and makes no impact on sales performance of either.

I agree with your general philosophy and would add that competition is not defined by the OEM, not by journalists, and not by market data companies who attempt to group vehicles into their defined segments. Competition is defined by consumers. If a consumer cross-shops two vehicles, they are competing for that sale, regardlessd of what anyone else thinks about their similarity or dissimilarity. In one study we launched for a high end premium vehicle, we realized that a top competitor for a luxury car was a boat, competing for the same discretionary dollar spend. There are research companies that aggregate consumer survey data across tens to hundred of thousands of respondents and it is quite easy to see, among motor vehicles, what the consumer cross-shops, and therefore, is the actual competition. We will know in another year or so what the actual R2 consumer-driven competition turns out to be.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

People are confused about the different ways two cars are competitors. There’s competition in branding. There’s competition in product promise (features & capabilities). There’s competition in pricing. All and any can be true. There isn’t one “my way or the highway” position that is more right. Context of RJ’s comment is being ignored and twisted. MY is R2’s biggest competition because MY is the incumbent leader by A) time on market, B) volume, C) price range and D) the closest rival that is truly software defined and from another pure EV manufacturer. Being competitors doesn’t make the products the same point per point.

Ignore facts and believe whatever you want. All this arguing is moot and makes no impact on sales performance of either.

I don't think that anyone in this thread is saying that the cars are or have to be EXACTLY the same on a feature-for-feature basis. However, they're EVs priced in the same general space, are roughly comparable in size, have a similar general carrying capacity/passenger space, and will compare favorably in general performance/range.

That makes them competitors to buyers looking in that crossover-ish market. To say the Rivian R2 will be cross-shopped against a Model 3 or an Ioniq 6 is a bit daft to me. But to say that someone looking at an R2 would also cross-shop a Model Y, Ford Mustang Mach-E, Ioniq 5, or Kia EV6 seems reasonable.

I think the disconnect in this thread is coming from the notion that since the R2 appears more off-roady than the Model Y, they aren't competitors. I don't agree on that point at all. On the aspects that matter to the heart of the populous that will be buying these vehicles, price/range/passenger comfort/space utilization/on-road comfort will tie these two vehicles together more than anything else, including off-road cred.

 

[VandalSibs]

@macb00kemdanno I will admit I don't know much about approach and departure angles, so I don't know if higher or lower numbers are better...

Outback: 20º approach, 22.5º departure
R2: 25º approach, 27º departure

 

[ENVErider]

Meh. If all we get out of this is the same silver color we've already seen in a static display that's a giant nothingburger IMO.

I'm old enough to remember when Rivian embraced bold colors instead of boring white and silver.

Brother, it's a little early to start trolling and dumping on Rivian for color choices. Why not wait until we actually know what colors they offer before you start ripping into them?

As for being old enough, my 13-year-old son also recalls Rivian's bold initial color offerings.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

@macb00kemdanno I will admit I don't know much about approach and departure angles, so I don't know if higher or lower numbers are better...

Outback: 20º approach, 22.5º departure
R2: 25º approach, 27º departure

I see you have an R1T, and this comment pretty much nails what I was talking about above. Most people really don't care. They like the vehicle, how it looks, and its creature comforts, but the off-road stuff is just an added bonus.

But to your point, the R2 has better approach/departure angles. But the Outback would have a better breakover angle AFAICT.

 

[JeepEVer]

Keep the PHOTOS coming, and the chatter to a minimum please.

I agree although my European heritage defines anything with a sloping rear hatch as a hatch back rather than a sedan. There are too many automotive classifications nowadays without meaningful distinction in my view, although I grudgingly acknowledge the auto makers marketing requirement that drives this. That said the MY is to me at least surprisingly larger when seen alongside other vehicles than its shape/style suggests in isolation. But I just can't call something that shape an SUV.

That said, on a more objective level both vehicles are quite close in a number of metrics, based on early R@ data from the Rivian website and the MY online owners manual:
Edited: To correct overall wheelsize on MY

	R2	MY Premium
Length	185.6"	188.7
Width (excl folded mirrors)	75" (assume excl folded mirrors)	75.6"
Width with folded mirrors	?	78"
Width with side mirrors	84.4	83.8"
Height	66.9"	63.9"
Gnd Clearance (laden)	9.8" (?)	6.6" (5.4")
Wheelbase	115.6"	113.8"
Max Wheel Size	32"	19" 28"

Has anyone seen interior cargo space specs for R2? I am guessing around 75 cubic-feet with the rear seats folded, plus the frunk. Thanks in advance for any additional detail.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Keep the PHOTOS coming, and the chatter to a minimum please.

Has anyone seen interior cargo space specs for R2? I am guessing around 75 cubic-feet with the rear seats folded, plus the frunk. Thanks in advance for any additional detail.

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=ht...bp&s=0c1a7f72364c3b85c32333f647e64b04a3e48dba

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Keep the PHOTOS coming, and the chatter to a minimum please.

Has anyone seen interior cargo space specs for R2? I am guessing around 75 cubic-feet with the rear seats folded, plus the frunk. Thanks in advance for any additional detail.

It's a crappy angle/photo, but this is the only other photo I can find from the show. I'm surprised there aren't more.

 

[Sportstick]

It's a crappy angle/photo, but this is the only other photo I can find from the show. I'm surprised there aren't more.

Indeed, front and rear seating would be great if anyone has a shot?

Sponsored