Amen, DocTwinkie!!I posted this elsewhere but I’m a bored passenger from Orlando to Ohio.
I put my 1k down the day after the LA auto show. The Rivians are both amazing looking autos with some astounding features.
My concern is majorly on cost and as other have said it comes down to options. If they price these 70k 200mi, 80k 300, 90k 400 AND they are fully loaded then they have a chance. If they aren’t I don’t think they will survive.
60k for a truck isn’t unheard of as people drive raptors. But they aren’t the bread and butter of Ford. They don’t keep the company afloat. They won’t suport a plant designed to pump out 200k units a year.
Luxury Trucks have been attempted. The navigator and Escalade both tried it and failed miserably. There will be a super niche market for an ultra luxury Truck.
That’s what concerns me. The new ram 1500 is damn near Mercedes luxury but that’s not the model that moves the bottom line. Same with the raptor. Tesla was dying until the model 3 saved it from going under and gave it its first profitable quarter in their history.
When the Rivian hits it will also have a ton of competition. From Jag. Audi, and Mercedes on the electric front but also from BMW, Lincoln Aviator, and even the Wrangler in the plug in front.
For those just wanting to go green without paying a ton there’s also the Kona, Bolt, Soul, Niro, and Extended range Leaf.
Rivian has a huge uphill battle. When Tesla got to market they were alone and carried a cache’ of cool and sexy whether you like them or not. Rivian will be inundated with competition that all has established brands and more importantly established reliability and service (even Tesla you at least have an idea what you’re getting).
I’m heading out to New York in two weeks to learn more. I certainly need some convincing.
Model Y. Less off road capable but has a more likely to be around name, supercharger network, and 72k fully loaded performance model. Only 3k from where an R1T starts.
Etron, Ipace, and Mercedes all backed by well known names with a service network and likely comparable prices.
Aviator. You get luxury to the max with an electric plug in that will probably have enough range for most people to stay all electric 95% of the time and it maxes out sticker at 87k for a black label. Maintenance and warranty are ford so you’re solid here.
Wrangler. Waaaaaaay more off roadable. Waaaay. Should have enough range for people to stay all electric 90% of the time. It will probably max the sticker under 70 and you will never pay sticker for a wrangler. Usually 5% under invoice. Again has a dealer network and establiahed off roadabability and aftermarket parts. Wranglers also hold their value better than any car out there. Tesla owners are finding depreciation stings.
Tesla/Ford EV trucks soon.
I have been very excited for the Rivian but the price and marketing have me very worried. Who is this for? Uber rich outdoorsy folks? How big is that market? How do they plan to sell enough to stay afloat? If you want off-roading get a wrangler. If you want luxury get an Aviator, Audi, Jag, or Mercedes. If you want speed get a Model Y. If you need a truck for work you are not spending 70k base on it.
Maybe they will convince me. But I have a feeling the Rivian will top out well over 100k and to me and probably 99.9% of people out there that’s just too much to gamble on a niche market, depreciation, and a new company when there are so many other choices.
True true. If you’re desert running for speed for sure a raptor is the way to go.I think one of Rivian’s plans is to sell their technology to the big auto manufacturers. This would make the Rivian brand a niche vehicle in the market but it will keep the company sustained. The target market is an interesting question though.
Jeeps are way more capable off road? Not necessarily true. Off road is not one segment. Jeeps have live axles which are fantastic for articulation but they are way too much unsprung mass. Nobody will tell you that a Jeep will win the Baja 1000.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. I agree if I do decide to go middle of the road and get the r1s at 300 range, then 80k better be fully loaded or at least top of the line with only a few options that I don’t care about pushing the price higher (different roof types, accessories, etc). I would be coming from a cheap ICE and there is some justification for higher price just because it would be my first EV, but at some point I will be deconvinced if the price is too high.
Oh and if the tax credit goes away, I will most certainly go with a model y... I hope it stays though.
It’s really weird. I have bought fully loaded vehicles since I got my first job as a doc. I had a fully loaded 2007 RDX which I think was like high 30s low 40s. My wife got her fully loaded Infiniti for sub 50. My current xc60 fully loaded was 50. My wife’s fully loaded 2019 RDX was sub 50.I'm in the same boat as a lot of people seem to be. I'm looking forward to hearing about what features are included and what are part of add-on options/trim levels before making any judgement on value-for-money.
This is shaping up to be my dream truck but is at the very top-end of what I might be able to afford for a vehicle (at the lowest expected price). If I could get my hands on one, the mid-range battery sounds perfect for my needs (regular commuting + occasional long-range casual road trips), but for $80k possibly on a 'base model' with limited features that unfortunately puts me out.
Hopefully these types of vehicles continue to gain momentum and get to the point where they're more affordable for the average person.
Same here. I bought my Tesla because I'm a bit of a techno-freak and just wanted to try a new automotive technology. In no time I was completely addicted to the power and smoothness of the powertrain (and to regenerative braking) and will never be without an EV again, even though I keep an ICE minivan for certain purposes.For me the “going green” part is not the biggest thing.