R1T $69,000 starting price - opinions

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
I posted this elsewhere but I’m a bored passenger from Orlando to Ohio.

I put my 1k down the day after the LA auto show. The Rivians are both amazing looking autos with some astounding features.

My concern is majorly on cost and as other have said it comes down to options. If they price these 70k 200mi, 80k 300, 90k 400 AND they are fully loaded then they have a chance. If they aren’t I don’t think they will survive.

60k for a truck isn’t unheard of as people drive raptors. But they aren’t the bread and butter of Ford. They don’t keep the company afloat. They won’t suport a plant designed to pump out 200k units a year.

Luxury Trucks have been attempted. The navigator and Escalade both tried it and failed miserably. There will be a super niche market for an ultra luxury Truck.

That’s what concerns me. The new ram 1500 is damn near Mercedes luxury but that’s not the model that moves the bottom line. Same with the raptor. Tesla was dying until the model 3 saved it from going under and gave it its first profitable quarter in their history.

When the Rivian hits it will also have a ton of competition. From Jag. Audi, and Mercedes on the electric front but also from BMW, Lincoln Aviator, and even the Wrangler in the plug in front.

For those just wanting to go green without paying a ton there’s also the Kona, Bolt, Soul, Niro, and Extended range Leaf.

Rivian has a huge uphill battle. When Tesla got to market they were alone and carried a cache’ of cool and sexy whether you like them or not. Rivian will be inundated with competition that all has established brands and more importantly established reliability and service (even Tesla you at least have an idea what you’re getting).

I’m heading out to New York in two weeks to learn more. I certainly need some convincing.

Model Y. Less off road capable but has a more likely to be around name, supercharger network, and 72k fully loaded performance model. Only 3k from where an R1T starts.

Etron, Ipace, and Mercedes all backed by well known names with a service network and likely comparable prices.

Aviator. You get luxury to the max with an electric plug in that will probably have enough range for most people to stay all electric 95% of the time and it maxes out sticker at 87k for a black label. Maintenance and warranty are ford so you’re solid here.

Wrangler. Waaaaaaay more off roadable. Waaaay. Should have enough range for people to stay all electric 90% of the time. It will probably max the sticker under 70 and you will never pay sticker for a wrangler. Usually 5% under invoice. Again has a dealer network and establiahed off roadabability and aftermarket parts. Wranglers also hold their value better than any car out there. Tesla owners are finding depreciation stings.

Tesla/Ford EV trucks soon.

I have been very excited for the Rivian but the price and marketing have me very worried. Who is this for? Uber rich outdoorsy folks? How big is that market? How do they plan to sell enough to stay afloat? If you want off-roading get a wrangler. If you want luxury get an Aviator, Audi, Jag, or Mercedes. If you want speed get a Model Y. If you need a truck for work you are not spending 70k base on it.

Maybe they will convince me. But I have a feeling the Rivian will top out well over 100k and to me and probably 99.9% of people out there that’s just too much to gamble on a niche market, depreciation, and a new company when there are so many other choices.
 
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I posted this elsewhere but I’m a bored passenger from Orlando to Ohio.

I put my 1k down the day after the LA auto show. The Rivians are both amazing looking autos with some astounding features.

My concern is majorly on cost and as other have said it comes down to options. If they price these 70k 200mi, 80k 300, 90k 400 AND they are fully loaded then they have a chance. If they aren’t I don’t think they will survive.

60k for a truck isn’t unheard of as people drive raptors. But they aren’t the bread and butter of Ford. They don’t keep the company afloat. They won’t suport a plant designed to pump out 200k units a year.

Luxury Trucks have been attempted. The navigator and Escalade both tried it and failed miserably. There will be a super niche market for an ultra luxury Truck.

That’s what concerns me. The new ram 1500 is damn near Mercedes luxury but that’s not the model that moves the bottom line. Same with the raptor. Tesla was dying until the model 3 saved it from going under and gave it its first profitable quarter in their history.

When the Rivian hits it will also have a ton of competition. From Jag. Audi, and Mercedes on the electric front but also from BMW, Lincoln Aviator, and even the Wrangler in the plug in front.

For those just wanting to go green without paying a ton there’s also the Kona, Bolt, Soul, Niro, and Extended range Leaf.

Rivian has a huge uphill battle. When Tesla got to market they were alone and carried a cache’ of cool and sexy whether you like them or not. Rivian will be inundated with competition that all has established brands and more importantly established reliability and service (even Tesla you at least have an idea what you’re getting).

I’m heading out to New York in two weeks to learn more. I certainly need some convincing.

Model Y. Less off road capable but has a more likely to be around name, supercharger network, and 72k fully loaded performance model. Only 3k from where an R1T starts.

Etron, Ipace, and Mercedes all backed by well known names with a service network and likely comparable prices.

Aviator. You get luxury to the max with an electric plug in that will probably have enough range for most people to stay all electric 95% of the time and it maxes out sticker at 87k for a black label. Maintenance and warranty are ford so you’re solid here.

Wrangler. Waaaaaaay more off roadable. Waaaay. Should have enough range for people to stay all electric 90% of the time. It will probably max the sticker under 70 and you will never pay sticker for a wrangler. Usually 5% under invoice. Again has a dealer network and establiahed off roadabability and aftermarket parts. Wranglers also hold their value better than any car out there. Tesla owners are finding depreciation stings.

Tesla/Ford EV trucks soon.

I have been very excited for the Rivian but the price and marketing have me very worried. Who is this for? Uber rich outdoorsy folks? How big is that market? How do they plan to sell enough to stay afloat? If you want off-roading get a wrangler. If you want luxury get an Aviator, Audi, Jag, or Mercedes. If you want speed get a Model Y. If you need a truck for work you are not spending 70k base on it.

Maybe they will convince me. But I have a feeling the Rivian will top out well over 100k and to me and probably 99.9% of people out there that’s just too much to gamble on a niche market, depreciation, and a new company when there are so many other choices.
Amen, DocTwinkie!!
 

MattpR1T

Member
I think one of Rivian’s plans is to sell their technology to the big auto manufacturers. This would make the Rivian brand a niche vehicle in the market but it will keep the company sustained. The target market is an interesting question though.

Jeeps are way more capable off road? Not necessarily true. Off road is not one segment. Jeeps have live axles which are fantastic for articulation but they are way too much unsprung mass. Nobody will tell you that a Jeep will win the Baja 1000.
 

Aurum

Active Member
This pretty much sums up my feelings. I agree if I do decide to go middle of the road and get the r1s at 300 range, then 80k better be fully loaded or at least top of the line with only a few options that I don’t care about pushing the price higher (different roof types, accessories, etc). I would be coming from a cheap ICE and there is some justification for higher price just because it would be my first EV, but at some point I will be deconvinced if the price is too high.

Oh and if the tax credit goes away, I will most certainly go with a model y... I hope it stays though.
 

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
I think one of Rivian’s plans is to sell their technology to the big auto manufacturers. This would make the Rivian brand a niche vehicle in the market but it will keep the company sustained. The target market is an interesting question though.

Jeeps are way more capable off road? Not necessarily true. Off road is not one segment. Jeeps have live axles which are fantastic for articulation but they are way too much unsprung mass. Nobody will tell you that a Jeep will win the Baja 1000.
True true. If you’re desert running for speed for sure a raptor is the way to go.
 

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
This pretty much sums up my feelings. I agree if I do decide to go middle of the road and get the r1s at 300 range, then 80k better be fully loaded or at least top of the line with only a few options that I don’t care about pushing the price higher (different roof types, accessories, etc). I would be coming from a cheap ICE and there is some justification for higher price just because it would be my first EV, but at some point I will be deconvinced if the price is too high.

Oh and if the tax credit goes away, I will most certainly go with a model y... I hope it stays though.


I hate being a Debbie downer (though I’m exceedingly good at it). The other thing to consider is if you’re simply paying a fee to go green you gotta think a little deeper.

An electric car has a much larger carbon footprint to produce than an ICE. The 180kwh battery pack will have a massive footprint. However over time the decreased carbon emissions of your electric company overcomes the carbon emissions from gasoline of the ICE and then you become “greener.”

How long this take depends on the cars and also where you live. Here in Ohio If I buy a Tesla it might take 10years before my carbon footprint is smaller then if I just bought a regular sedan. In California where there is more renewable energy it will take a few years.

Just buying an electric doesn’t make you green unless you drive it for several years. Longest I’ve kept a car has been 8 years.

 

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
For me this is a life goal. I’m overweight. Have been forever. Trying to get my weight on track and if I do this next car is to be my midlife crisis car. I’ll be 40 next year. Most I’ve ever spent on a car is 50k.

I remember my wrangler as a teen so it’s high on my list. The Rivian has all that if miss in a wrangler (safety, handling, autonomous features, speed, practicality, efficiency) but I’m just hoping if I hit my goal weight I can afford it.
 

Whmorken

Active Member
Three cheers for linking your health and strength to future off-road adventuring in a Rivian. This greeting is from a 75 year old mountaineer/walker who just finished a season of skiing and is heading for the high peaks this summer, daily.
 

LionLeo

Member
I'm in the same boat as a lot of people seem to be. I'm looking forward to hearing about what features are included and what are part of add-on options/trim levels before making any judgement on value-for-money.

This is shaping up to be my dream truck but is at the very top-end of what I might be able to afford for a vehicle (at the lowest expected price). If I could get my hands on one, the mid-range battery sounds perfect for my needs (regular commuting + occasional long-range casual road trips), but for $80k possibly on a 'base model' with limited features that unfortunately puts me out.

Hopefully these types of vehicles continue to gain momentum and get to the point where they're more affordable for the average person.
 

DocTwinkie

Well-Known Member
I'm in the same boat as a lot of people seem to be. I'm looking forward to hearing about what features are included and what are part of add-on options/trim levels before making any judgement on value-for-money.

This is shaping up to be my dream truck but is at the very top-end of what I might be able to afford for a vehicle (at the lowest expected price). If I could get my hands on one, the mid-range battery sounds perfect for my needs (regular commuting + occasional long-range casual road trips), but for $80k possibly on a 'base model' with limited features that unfortunately puts me out.

Hopefully these types of vehicles continue to gain momentum and get to the point where they're more affordable for the average person.
It’s really weird. I have bought fully loaded vehicles since I got my first job as a doc. I had a fully loaded 2007 RDX which I think was like high 30s low 40s. My wife got her fully loaded Infiniti for sub 50. My current xc60 fully loaded was 50. My wife’s fully loaded 2019 RDX was sub 50.

Even my parents X5 was in the 60s.

Tesla kinda started this whole exotic pricing scheme where you’re paying AMG type near supercar prices.

Before the Rivian I was considering several models that are 50-80k as my midlife treat for getting my weight down (50lbs down and 100 to go).

So this idea that now base prices of cars start near the top of my range and that fully loaded represent a quarter of the cost of my house is getting a bit insane.

It’s not that the other end stopped existing. My wife’s RDX has everything you could want (except electric) and maxed out at 48 sticker.

Even on the electric front a kona is dirt cheap by comparison. For the price of one Rivian at base price I can buy two fully loaded Electric Konas with money left over.

It’s kinda the head or the heart deal. The Rivian really makes zero sense for the price in any practical argument, but I still want one and if it’s reasonable still might get one. But there will be a lot of options to consider when it finally releases.

I personally think that if the wrangler has decent all electric range I will probably go that route.
 

Hmp10

Well-Known Member
For me the “going green” part is not the biggest thing.
Same here. I bought my Tesla because I'm a bit of a techno-freak and just wanted to try a new automotive technology. In no time I was completely addicted to the power and smoothness of the powertrain (and to regenerative braking) and will never be without an EV again, even though I keep an ICE minivan for certain purposes.

I traded an Audi R8 V-10 Spyder for the Tesla, and I have owned a Corvette and a Mercedes SL55 AMG. I though I knew what strong power delivery felt like in a car, but I knew nothing until I got the Tesla Performance model. I cannot even imagine what their new Roadster is going to feel like.

Although it was not a factor in my decision to buy an EV, the fuel cost savings have astonished me. My electric bill went up far less than my gas bill came down.
 
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