New Tesla Model S/X

[DucRider]

a lot of the level 3 capabilities they are targeting are included here as free OTA updates.

Level 3, yes.
FSD is an unknown. Some people are reading into the quotes in the rest of your post that FSD will be free. I don't. Doesn't mean it won't be, but it's not promised or implied to be a free upgrade. Driver+ is only promoted as "driving assistance" - nothing more.

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[staples]

Sure - all they have to do is change the name to Driver++ ...

Driver+KITT.

 

[MReda]

Level 3, yes.
FSD is an unknown. Some people are reading into the quotes in the rest of your post that FSD will be free. I don't. Doesn't mean it won't be, but it's not promised or implied to be a free upgrade. Driver+ is only promoted as "driving assistance" - nothing more.

Ok, fair enough. The term "Full Self Driving" gets thrown around enough that when it is used, it's hard to tell if it is being used properly.

At this point, I'm assuming the Rivian that is delivered to me later this year will only ever be capable of level 3, and all of the features that are added to it over the years, maintaining level 3, will be free updates.

Full self driving is not even on my radar, and I would be surprised if any Tesla being sold today ever supports it, regardless of what terms Tesla uses to market their capability.

 

[Gshenderson]

There are also eliptical gears that can very the gearing with postion.

A conical spindle gear would allow for variable gain as well. The entire spindle could move linearly in and out based on the speed which would change the gear ratio as it moved.

 

[LeoH]

If Tesla does not improve the build quality, and Rivian ( and other manufacturers ) are able to offer better quality, there would be no concern. After my horrid experiences with 2 different Model S, I will never touch a Tesla again. 500miles range does me no good if I am going to spend half of my ownership time at the service center or waiting for parts, or total a car due to equipment failure.

 

[ajdelange]

A conical spindle gear would allow for variable gain as well. The entire spindle could move linearly in and out based on the speed which would change the gear ratio as it moved.

Sure but do we really think anyone would use mechanical analog computing to implement the transfer function? How would he program an adaptive transfer function with gears?

 

[azbill]

Sure but do we really think anyone would use mechanical analog computing to implement the transfer function? How would he program an adaptive transfer function with gears?

The question becomes how much redudancy and cost are auto makers willing to add to use things like drive by wire. Mechanical gears are very reliable and cannot have any software bugs.

I helped to design several fly-by-wire systems for commercial aircraft in my career and the systems are at least quadruple redundant and each computer used on an aircraft costs more than a single car. The amount of software verification than goes on is 10x more rigorous than what car makers do. Also, sensors and actuators must also be redundant, adding more cost and more weight.

Because of this background, I could care less about FSD and have no plans to ever use it.

 

[ajdelange]

each computer used on an aircraft costs more than a single car.

We used to joke that a pencil with a PMA would cost $20.

 

[Gshenderson]

Sure but do we really think anyone would use mechanical analog computing to implement the transfer function? How would he program an adaptive transfer function with gears?

No, I don’t. I was simply commenting on a possible mechanical solution based on previous posts indicating that it may not be good to have steering be a non-mechanical operation. I think that whole steering wheel idea on the new Tesla is stupid and just another Tesla gimmick.

Proceed on with your condescension AJ... It’s obviously what you do best.

 

[JeremyMKE]

I am definitely considering the Model S vs R1T and this update made that decision harder.

Short list of reasons I see as Tesla differentiators

• Track Record as an EV manufacturer
• Service Network/Warranty
• Supercharging infrastructure
• Self Driving is WAY ahead, they have the data and more experience

I am still intending to get an R1T btw for many reasons, as I surf these forums these items are fairly ubiquitous as concerns for prospective buyers. Some are solvable with announcements from Rivian. Some require time to play out.

I think the X and the Y are kinda ugly and while I like the cybertruck for its audacity, price, and capability. I Just don't see it being practical day to day, and its ugly-ish.

 

[ajdelange]

I am definitely considering the Model S vs R1T and this update made that decision harder.

Try this. Flip a coin. Heads go with the Tesla and tails with the Rivian. When the coin lands and you see the result ask yourself whether you are pleased with it. This is a technique for making tough decisions I was taught many years ago. It has really worked for me.

 

[JeremyMKE]

Try this. Flip a coin. Heads go with the Tesla and tails with the Rivian. When the coin lands and you see the result ask yourself whether you are pleased with it. This is a technique for making tough decisions I was taught many years ago. It has really worked for me.

As has been said many times I cant tell if you are being sarcastic but I choose to take the positive version from people because its a way to stay positive.

Short version once I have all the data from Rivian, it might come down to that coin flip. To your point that coin flip can expose emotionality.

 

[ajdelange]

As has been said many times I cant tell if you are being sarcastic but I choose to take the positive version from people because its a way to stay positive.

Would that everyone had your maturity! The method is widely used when rational decision making (working all the numbers) isn't giving you a clear answer or if you suspect that this is a decision that you may come to regret based on what rational analysis told you to do. If you are skeptical try it on some other decisons first.

Short version once I have all the data from Rivian, it might come down to that coin flip. To your point that coin flip can expose emotionality.

Yes. That is the point exactly. I'm an engineer and so tend to be somewhat dismissive of decisions made emotionally but I do recognize that not all decisions should be 100% based on ratiocination.

And just to be sure that I have been clear: you don't make the decision based on the coin flip but rather on how you feel about the result of the coin flip.

Has no one heard of this method? It's probably attributable to some great thinker of the last century. A quick websearch doesn't reveal any particular person but there is quite a bit of scholarly research on the technique and a bunch of poppsy/self help articles too.

 

[BigE]

Love the update! As I have a reservation on both R1T & CyberTruck Tri-Motor, I can't wait to see what final CyberTruck interior looks like.

 

[BigE]

It's not quite that certain.

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All features are standard
Automatic braking in emergencies. Lane keeping if you drift. Alerts for vehicles in your blind spot. Every Rivian vehicle includes these features and more, all standard. Through over-the-air updates, we’ll add more over time at no cost to you.
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Rivian Driver+ is standard on every vehicle we build. Delivering true hands-free driving assistance along with our full set of safety features, the system continually adds functionality through over-the-air updates. By making Driver+ standard, our goal is to make driving safer, easier and less stressful for everyone.
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Automatic driving assistance and active safety features are standard on every Rivian vehicle. Some may be introduced through over-the-air software updates following start of production.
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Active Driving Assistance will be enabled on select highways at launch with more road types introduced over time.
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Active Driving Assistance is defined as "Automatic steering, braking and acceleration on select highways while engaged. ", and the wording above implies free updates to add more road types.

Sure - all they have to do is change the name to Driver++, call it a new feature and they can upcharge, and there is no mention of connecting it with navigation, so that could be an upcharge option, plenty of places for them to decide to charge, but I'm assuming that a lot of the level 3 capabilities they are targeting are included here as free OTA updates. Time could prove me wrong.

I would agree, to say Rivian will be out of the gate with something as good as Tesla's AutoPilot with Tesla's years and years of experience, billions of miles of collected data, and some of the best minds in the business is just not realistic. Will Rivian get there one day, possibly if that becomes one of their core areas of interest.

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