Looking for advice on Xcel Energy EV Accelerate options in Minnesota

[Mos Eisley]

Prepping for the eventual R2 - anybody here in Minnesota using one of the Xcel Energy Accelerate options?

EV Accelerate at Home | Charging Incentives | EV Charging | Xcel Energy
This will be our first EV - wondering about the value of the monthly subscription vs pay as you go:


EVAAH – Pay As You Go

• Rent from Xcel Energy: $16.63
• Bring Your Own Charger: $6.73

When you participate in the program, you pay 3.8c per kWh of energy used when you charge during off-peak hours between midnight and 6 a.m. every day.

EVAAH – Monthly Subscription

• Rent from Xcel Energy: $48.80
• Bring Your Own Charger: $38.81

Monthly subscription fees include 1,000kWh of off-peak energy per month. After that, you will be billed at 3.8¢ per kWh for energy used when you charge off-peak, between midnight and 6 a.m. every day.

The R2 will mostly be a short drive daily commuter. And by short, talking about 10-20 miles a day on average for work. Maybe 40 miles one day a week. Looking at my mileage tracker, I estimate I am currently driving 600-700 miles a month total.

So I'm guessing - on average usage, that the Monthly subscription will be a fair bit more than I'll generally need?

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[Budman]

I’ve looked into these plans a bit. The peak rate is so high that even an occasional EV charge during peak times would blow up the cost. My schedule is such that off peak only charging does not really work for me. I get the motivation to move people to off peak charging but the peak to off peak price delta is so large it has the perverse effect of discharging its adoption.

 

[Mos Eisley]

I had Claude build a widget based on the Xcel programs and assumed range of the R2. Here's an example of charging to 8-% daily at 800 miles a month to offset range loss in the winter.

 

[Mos Eisley]

I’ve looked into these plans a bit. The peak rate is so high that even an occasional EV charge during peak times would blow up the cost. My schedule is such that off peak only charging does not really work for me. I get the motivation to move people to off peak charging but the peak to off peak price delta is so large it has the perverse effect of discharging its adoption.

Yeah- peak rate here looks like it is ~3-6x's higher than off-peak. Fortunately, off peak works fine for me.

 

[jrmbadger]

Based upon your numbers, I'd probably just stay with the standard residential. As others have said, one or two charges off peak and its not worth it. Also, you are paying the $6 fee every month, even if you go on vacation for a couple weeks and don't use your car.

Don't forget that you have to use their specific charger, the Charge Point Home Flex. While the Charge Point Home Flex is a decent charger according to the charger review site: State of Charge (State of Charge). However, the Tesla wall connector was slightly better rated (State of Charge) and is cheaper. Right now the Charge Point is a $500.00 charger brand new from reputable sources, while a Tesla wall connector will be $50 cheaper. It'll take you quite awhile, at your numbers, to recoup that if you are indeed only saving $2.00 per month.

If you are like me and have solar you aren't eligible for these programs - so something to think about if you have or are considering solar.

One thing working in favor of these plans is that your efficiency will be about 60% of the 3.77 miles per kwh in winter (depending on the temperature and wind) so you will probably save more in these months. Pretty much December thru March. This is for four reasons. 1.) the cold slows down the chemical reactions in the battery reducing available power (this is temporary) 2.) the cabin heater uses energy 3.) cold air is more dense, making the car less aerodynamic. and 4.) It seems the wind picks up in winter - any wind (other than a tail wind) lowers efficiency.

 

[antimatter]

I went with the first option (renting charger) because this was my first EV and I wasn't sure I was going to be sticking with one (I am now). Realistically, the actual lowest tier rate is between 12 and 13 cents per kWh after all the taxes and fees are added on. I'm saving somewhere in the neighborhood of $70-$80 per month over gas, so I'm definitely getting savings. And, I'm in the position where I can charge at night between midnight and six AM, so that works out fine. I rarely charge during peak hours. HOWEVER, I am considering adding solar - if Xcel will approve the interconnect proposal for grid-ties solar. If that happens, I'll have to re-jigger the whole approach as Xcel won't do both programs at once (as someone previously mentioned).

TLDR-I do the first one. It saves money, but you could save more if you went with a TOD set-up and got your own EVSE.

 

[Mos Eisley]

I went with the first option (renting charger) because this was my first EV and I wasn't sure I was going to be sticking with one (I am now). Realistically, the actual lowest tier rate is between 12 and 13 cents per kWh after all the taxes and fees are added on. I'm saving somewhere in the neighborhood of $70-$80 per month over gas, so I'm definitely getting savings. And, I'm in the position where I can charge at night between midnight and six AM, so that works out fine. I rarely charge during peak hours. HOWEVER, I am considering adding solar - if Xcel will approve the interconnect proposal for grid-ties solar. If that happens, I'll have to re-jigger the whole approach as Xcel won't do both programs at once (as someone previously mentioned).

TLDR-I do the first one. It saves money, but you could save more if you went with a TOD set-up and got your own EVSE.

Thanks @antimatter - interesting POV-won't be doing solar so... Have you gone back and looked at your electric bills before and after the EV and whether the monthly vs standard vs pay as you go makes better sense now that you have experience?

 

[antimatter]

Thanks @antimatter - interesting POV-won't be doing solar so... Have you gone back and looked at your electric bills before and after the EV and whether the monthly vs standard vs pay as you go makes better sense now that you have experience?

Oh, yeah. I've done a lot of breakdowns, mostly to figure out the yearly inflation rate on electricity and see if solar would work and how many panels would be optimum. Now that I have the experience, I would probably try the Time of Day (TOD) schedule and get my own EVSE. The Emporia with power usage monitoring sounds like a great machine, and I'm a lot more comfortable with my R1T and the whole EV experience than I was a year ago. But, I'm not going to hack on my previous self for making the decisions I made - I wanted the flexibility to say 'Nope, not for me' if owning an EV turned out the be a huge PITA. Xcel's first plan is was totally pay as you go, so I could tell them to come and get the Chargepoint if I decided to go back to ICE. BTW, if you haven't installed the circuit for the EVSE, you can get a $500 rebate on that from Xcel if you use their installer. I forgot to mention that.

FWIW, when I called to ask the Xcel EV people were really good about answering questions.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Based upon your numbers, I'd probably just stay with the standard residential. As others have said, one or two charges off peak and its not worth it. Also, you are paying the $6 fee every month, even if you go on vacation for a couple weeks and don't use your car.

Don't forget that you have to use their specific charger, the Charge Point Home Flex. While the Charge Point Home Flex is a decent charger according to the charger review site: State of Charge (State of Charge). However, the Tesla wall connector was slightly better rated (State of Charge) and is cheaper. Right now the Charge Point is a $500.00 charger brand new from reputable sources, while a Tesla wall connector will be $50 cheaper. It'll take you quite awhile, at your numbers, to recoup that if you are indeed only saving $2.00 per month.

I uploaded the wrong screenshot, I've corrected that to show 100% charging between Midnight and 6am. So I paying 1/3rd standard rates for overnight... but double whenever I charge outside that window. If I'm disciplined, shouldn't be an issue but... hard to tell if needs must would erase that ~$80 annual savings. I get the limitation on ChargePoint though there is currently a $500 rebate on that charger, there's also a possible $1500 rebate on the panel upgrade if I need to. I don't know if that is tied to the subscription offer.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Oh, yeah. I've done a lot of breakdowns, mostly to figure out the yearly inflation rate on electricity and see if solar would work and how many panels would be optimum. Now that I have the experience, I would probably try the Time of Day (TOD) schedule and get my own EVSE. The Emporia with power usage monitoring sounds like a great machine, and I'm a lot more comfortable with my R1T and the whole EV experience than I was a year ago. But, I'm not going to hack on my previous self for making the decisions I made - I wanted the flexibility to say 'Nope, not for me' if owning an EV turned out the be a huge PITA. Xcel's first plan is was totally pay as you go, so I could tell them to come and get the Chargepoint if I decided to go back to ICE. BTW, if you haven't installed the circuit for the EVSE, you can get a $500 rebate on that from Xcel if you use their installer. I forgot to mention that.

FWIW, when I called to ask the Xcel EV people were really good about answering questions.

Thanks! I talked with Xcel at the state fair and they did seem really willing and knowledgeable. I already have a standalone panel in the garage with 240... I'm hopeful it's viable but I'm sure I'll need new copper from the panel and hardwired NACS.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Oh, yeah. I've done a lot of breakdowns, mostly to figure out the yearly inflation rate on electricity and see if solar would work and how many panels would be optimum. Now that I have the experience, I would probably try the Time of Day (TOD) schedule and get my own EVSE. The Emporia with power usage monitoring sounds like a great machine, and I'm a lot more comfortable with my R1T and the whole EV experience than I was a year ago. But, I'm not going to hack on my previous self for making the decisions I made - I wanted the flexibility to say 'Nope, not for me' if owning an EV turned out the be a huge PITA. Xcel's first plan is was totally pay as you go, so I could tell them to come and get the Chargepoint if I decided to go back to ICE. BTW, if you haven't installed the circuit for the EVSE, you can get a $500 rebate on that from Xcel if you use their installer. I forgot to mention that.

FWIW, when I called to ask the Xcel EV people were really good about answering questions.

Looking over the TOD option, that $.05 per kWh is attractive given the wider 9p-9a charging window and freedom to choose a charger and not worry about the wifi data connection to Xcel.

 

[slillie]

To me, the simplest and most cost effective solution is to pay an electrician to install a 14-50 plug (female) with a 50 Amp CB. If your breaker box is in your garage, then you're golden. Buy a reliable Level-2 charger with a 14-50 male plug. Don't pay for any "bells and whistle's" (ex, Wifi, timers, whatever). Your R2 will handle all the smart stuff, like when to start and stop charging and at what amperage to charge. Set the Rivian app to charge between Midnight and 6:00 am. No rental charges and you pay the lowest rate during off-peak times.

p.s. A lot of people here will say to only hardwire your L2 charger. I disagree. Just like your clothes dryer has a wall plug, this is no different with your charger. You don't constantly plug and unplug your dryer, neither would you do the same with your charger. But, if you go on a long vacation or move from your residence, it will be a lot more convenient and less expensive to just unplug and go.

 

[Mos Eisley]

To me, the simplest and most cost effective solution is to pay an electrician to install a 14-50 plug (female) with a 50 Amp CB. If your breaker box is in your garage, then you're golden. Buy a reliable Level-2 charger with a 14-50 male plug. Don't pay for any "bells and whistle's" (ex, Wifi, timers, whatever). Your R2 will handle all the smart stuff, like when to start and stop charging and at what amperage to charge. Set the Rivian app to charge between Midnight and 6:00 am. No rental charges and you pay the lowest rate during off-peak times.

p.s. A lot of people here will say to only hardwire your L2 charger. I disagree. Just like your clothes dryer has a wall plug, this is no different with your charger. You don't constantly plug and unplug your dryer, neither would you do the same with your charger. But, if you go on a long vacation or move from your residence, it will be a lot more convenient and less expensive to just unplug and go.

thx for your reply.
It’s true though that hardwired can pass through 48A vs 40A for plugged in, right?
that’s potentially 30-50 miles more per hour if I am doing the math right? We’re in this house for the long haul so not a need.

 

[slillie]

thx for your reply.
It’s true though that hardwired can pass through 48A vs 40A for plugged in, right?
that’s potentially 30-50 miles more per hour if I am doing the math right? We’re in this house for the long haul so not a need.

Not sure where you heard that, but it’s incorrect. Wire gauge and composition determine safe amperage.

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