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Credit/discount for waiting?

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Lmirafuente

Lmirafuente

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Rivian is definitely watching Tesla and following its playbook.
- limited in cabin controls outside of the big screen, check
- direct to consumer approach with no dealers, check
- making your own ui and not supporting carplay/aa, check
- pushing out big performance numbers that 90% of your consumers don't need / won't use, check
- making a high priced product first before moving down market to increase volume, check

I am sure you can add 100 other things to this list. Pretty much the only way Rivian is not following Tesla is by not having an insane CEO. I fully expect price hikes on R1 reservations, the only question to me is if they grandfather existing reservation holders in to the old price when they do so. I am hoping for being grandfathered in, but holding out hope for a lower price / added discounts is more optimism than I can produce.
I agree with your comments.

there are good ideas to leverage/copy for sure.
I also agree with the CEO differences!
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Dbeglor

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I think they have already given us credits for being long term supporters by not announcing pricing increases. They have effectively held the price to pretty much the same amount since they launched the configurator in 2020. I want to see Rivian be successful and not race to the bottom of building discount EVs.
It's actually lower than when they announced in 2018. There, the R1T was starting at $69k, presumably for the 250mi version. Later it was rumored then announced that that was actually for the mid range, and then they made off road an option, landing at $67.5k starting for mid range, while also giving LE free upgrade to Adventure and
 

cc84

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Yes demand is increasing and we have also heard attrition in this forum.
And there'll be more attrition, when Ford begins and ramps up their production with the Lightning. There are some folks here, only because of wanting an EV Truck, not necessarily an adventure vehicle or a car. Rivian was the first to offer a Truck. I suspect these are the customers that will take the first available.

..... Investing in the early adopters would be their best salespeople. That simple investment with customers would have a strong ROI.
After all, some of their employees received a potential $24,000 discount..... I'll take the tent option please, thanks very much. I'll keep the badges intact and say good things about you.?
 

slawwach

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They haven't raised prices (yet)... so I already feel like we're receiving a discount.
My guess it they haven't raised the prices yet, because they're also not selling them yet. In this context it's hard to talk about discount because for now the price is just some arbitrary, non obligatory number. Higher order numbers looked better in the S1.
I'm expecting they will raise the price before delivering in real volumes. Maybe LE orders will stay intact since in the big picture the number of them is not that high?
On the other hand if LE is the only thing they're gonna deliver for some time they might want to show some revenue. Just thinking loud here...
 

Dbeglor

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Rivian is definitely watching Tesla and following its playbook.
- limited in cabin controls outside of the big screen, check
- direct to consumer approach with no dealers, check
- making your own ui and not supporting carplay/aa, check
- pushing out big performance numbers that 90% of your consumers don't need / won't use, check
- making a high priced product first before moving down market to increase volume, check

I am sure you can add 100 other things to this list. Pretty much the only way Rivian is not following Tesla is by not having an insane CEO. I fully expect price hikes on R1 reservations, the only question to me is if they grandfather existing reservation holders in to the old price when they do so. I am hoping for being grandfathered in, but holding out hope for a lower price / added discounts is more optimism than I can produce.
To be fair, big performance numbers are mostly a byproduct of the big battery needed to achieve the required range. So, by having access to all that power, why wouldn't you use it? I doubt you'll ever see a 135kwh battery car with paltry performance specs. Now they could have just had single/dual motors, but then again they are heavy cars, so dual is bare minimum and they needed the "thing" to set them apart.

Direct consumer - you could also say they are following Polestar or Lucid, and everyone is going that direction. There is no other path for an auto startup, so hard to say they were following someone else when it's the only option. Volvo and Stellantis has already announced the same. Yes, Tesla was the first though.

Starting with high priced product before moving down market is just necessary business, not a strategy invented by Tesla.

As for other ways they aren't following Tesla:

- they embraced legacy automakers (namely Ford) to gain knowledge on manufacturing rather than forging their own path
- they sought out a tech partner to accelerate/de-risk their efforts there (Amazon)
- they sought out a partner to assist with the service and support network (Cox)
- They are pursuing more traditional design rather than being unique for the sake of it or aero/efficiency reasons. They surely could have designed different vehicles and eeked out more range, but decided on a sweet spot of design and efficiency.
 

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SANZC02

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$70,000 in 2018 equals $73,961.07 in 2021.

I’m sure when the 2022 numbers come out it will be much higher as inflation this year is pretty high. If the prices do not go up we are already getting a pretty good discount.
 

fromSf

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It will be cool if they offer a discount, as everyone said it's not going to happen. All we can hope is Rivian doesn't raise the price for existing reservation holders.

Also, Rivian needs to stop delivering vehicles to employees and start delivering to people like us. Feel they built the company to build vehicles for employees, their friends and family.

I'm really glad they sent us estimated delivery dates, in reality I don't believe in those dates. I expect more delays for my LE-R1S.
 

kommonplace

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And there'll be more attrition, when Ford begins and ramps up their production with the Lightning. There are some folks here, only because of wanting an EV Truck, not necessarily an adventure vehicle or a car. Rivian was the first to offer a Truck. I suspect these are the customers that will take the first available.
Rivian execs must be thrilled that Ford announced customer deliveries of the F150 Lightning are pushed back to September 2022. The longer it takes for the competition to debut, the more ahead they can get. You know, once they actually start delivering. Certainly Rivian will beat September. Right? Right??
 

Arthur Itiz

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Rivian will watch to see where the Cybertruck is priced and whether other manufacturers offer 'stick around incentives'. No changes till then.
 

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$70,000 in 2018 equals $73,961.07 in 2021.

I’m sure when the 2022 numbers come out it will be much higher as inflation this year is pretty high. If the prices do not go up we are already getting a pretty good discount.
Or said another way, $70K today was $66,251.07 in 2018.
 

Diddy123

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$70,000 in 2018 equals $73,961.07 in 2021.

I’m sure when the 2022 numbers come out it will be much higher as inflation this year is pretty high. If the prices do not go up we are already getting a pretty good discount.
I also feel it's my duty when this topic comes to remind everyone (and any Rivian lurkers)...

They’ve effectively raised the price multiple times by continuously removing previously announced standard features. I’m not sure why this always gets overlooked. The price has remained mostly unchanged, but what you’re receiving in exchange has seriously diminished.

No LIDAR
No photochromatic roof (several thousand dollar value)
No 180 tailgate
No powered tailgate
Significantly reduced level Of finish in the frunk
No level 3 autonomy without a subscription
Probably others I’m forgetting right now

They’ve eliminated many thousands in cost/value without reducing the price.
 

James

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i cannot remember when I suggested in this forum that it would be cool if Rivian would convert our deposit into stock options….they did better by giving us access to DSP’s——-very cool!

i know some of us have been waiting a long time for delivery.

wouldn’t it be cool to get a $1,000 credit per year we have waited towards an option?

we know Rivian monitors this lforum….maybe they do something with this idea at some level….

?thoughts?
Not happening. Business does not work that way.
 
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Dbeglor

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I also feel it's my duty when this topic comes to remind everyone (and any Rivian lurkers)...

They’ve effectively raised the price multiple times by continuously removing previously announced standard features. I’m not sure why this always gets overlooked. The price has remained mostly unchanged, but what you’re receiving in exchange has seriously diminished.

No LIDAR
No photochromatic roof (several thousand dollar value)
No 180 tailgate
No powered tailgate
Significantly reduced level Of finish in the frunk
No level 3 autonomy without a subscription
Probably others I’m forgetting right now

They’ve eliminated many thousands in cost/value without reducing the price.
It's overlooked because it's inaccurate. If you recall, from the time of unveiling in 2018 to the launch of the configurator in Nov 2020, the starting price of the R1T was $69k for the 250mi range model. They then made that the price of the mid-range option in Nov 2020. At current prices, the cost of the additional 30kwh is about $4,000, so its market value will be even higher. They also created a LE trim that gave a free tire upgrade ($1,800 value) for those that were able to take advantage of it. They also allowed you to drop the offroad package if you didn't want it, saving additional money for some. So ultimately, the fact is that someone ordering a base R1T Explore with the offroad package is getting the additional battery/range for "free", or whenever they launch the lower range version, could be saving $5-$7k if they are waiting for that (unless prices change).

As for what they removed:

LIDAR - removing this hasn't necessarily changed the product, you can't definitively say it has. Anecdotally, Audi removed LIDAR mid-model year in 2019 from the e Tron and the driver assistance feature is exactly the same between the two (from personal experience).

Electrochromatic roof - this was never promised to be part of the base price, so they removed it as an option but who knows what it would have cost as an option (and may still be added as an option later on along with the other roof options). So, this wasn't removed from the base price, you just don't currently have the option to pay for it like before.

It's a frunk, finish level is irrelevant, but if you want to put a value on it, I'll give it $150, similar to the cost of upgraded floor mats. I don't need Chilewich floormats in the frunk. The hooks may have been nice, but that's it.

I don't personally ascribe much value to the tailgate features because I wouldn't be hauling anything, but others might. What's the market charge for a powered/multifunction tailgate from GM?

I'd have to see what they advertised, but Level 3 still is not a certainty at all, so I don't think I ever assumed that was a given and came with the base price of the vehicle. The only comp in the market charged $10k for it whenever it does come to life, so not sure why anyone would give it for free. This is more nebulous because it technically doesn't even exist yet, so hard to nail down what expected value there was vs. what it is today.

So, they unequivocally have reduced the price, and what they removed along the way is up for everyone to decide its value. For me, I'm paying less than I expected I would for what I'm getting.
 

Rhidan

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I don't personally ascribe much value to the tailgate features because I wouldn't be hauling anything, but others might. What's the market charge for a powered/multifunction tailgate from GM?
@Diddy123 The 180 tailgate/powered tailgate was also not intended to be standard, but was a potential $$$ upgrade. Brian Gase said so directly at the 2018 LA Auto Show.
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