Charging with a generator

[Lloyd]

I could charge my Tesla from my 3000 watt kohler generator. Before it would work, I needed to bond the ground to the neutral. The charging protocol checks for this connection which usually occurs in the main panel.

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[ajdelange]

The charging protocol checks for this connection which usually occurs in the main panel.

See No. 53 for why EVSE checks earth - phase voltage.

 

[Voronbrg]

https://generatorbible.com/generators/predator/9500-57080/
Delicate electronics can be plugged in an AC outlets safely, as the 9500 generates a clean sine wave, reaching a <5% Total Harmonic Disruption (THD).


https://generatorbible.com/blog/tesla/

 

[Arky]

Ot.. but as a PSA.... look at the horrendous voltage waveform output from a standard "non- sine wave" office UPS... You think that's healthy for anything with a microprocessor?

Nowadays, unless you're only planning to run a few incandescent light bulbs or toaster, use an inverter generator and or Sine Wave UPS.

The microprocessor doesn't see this.

Any computer equipment you plug into AC has its own AC->DC power supply that really just cares about charging an input capacitor and firing pulses through a transformer to generate a lower or higher voltage rectified output. You'd be surprised how sloppy of an input wave you'd need before this equipment wouldn't work. Granted some are more tolerant than others, because high efficiency/low cost supplies have naturally less buffer to absorb this mess. The rectifier side of the equipment is pretty simple, diodes are pretty hardy components, though it's hard to tell how well the power factor correction circuitry will work with a non standard wave, likely just leading to lower efficiency.

Your crappy input wave never reaches the output as it's electrically isolated by the transformer (because not doing that eschews that protection and introduces a whole host of other safety problems with an extended ground loop.)

 

[ajdelange]

Any computer equipment you plug into AC has its own AC->DC power supply that really just cares about charging an input capacitor and firing pulses through a transformer to generate a lower or higher voltage rectified output.

That was true in the old days of simple diode bridges but the argument seems to be that modern power supplies have Power Factor Correction circuits that use active devices and that they won't tolerate harmonics. Now the "modified sine" waveform is an extreme case. I don't see how PFC could work against such a waveform but I am still not sure a PFC equipped power supply would be damaged by one.

 

[ajdelange]

Delicate electronics can be plugged in an AC outlets safely, as the 9500 generates a clean sine wave, reaching a <5% Total Harmonic Disruption (THD).

That's encouraging, of course but we wonder if we should accept this reassurace rom a source that thinks THD is Total Harmonic Disruption!

 

[NY_Rob]

The microprocessor doesn't see this.

Of course it doesn't as that's the most well protected component on the motherboard, but that nasty ass wave will chew up the PSU like nobody's business. That wave was from a 1,000 watt APC brand UPS we were replacing with a Sine Wave UPS. When that old UPS was running modern PC's, you could literally hear the PSU buzzing. It was scary...

 

[ajdelange]

If you hear buzzing then there is steel (transformer, inductor) in there. if you listened when on low THD primary power you would hear a hum - not nealy so harsh nor noticeable. Much of the hype re high harmonic content comes from the days when electronics had steel excited at line frequency. Harmonics do not do well in steel (transformers, motors,,,) as they result in heat causing at best losses.

 

[ajdelange]

Did you put your scope on it yet?

Eventually. 3.5 - 4.9% THD no load.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ under the 5% spec for use with "sensitive" electronic devices.

Any photos of the waveform? Just for curiosity.

I just took delivery of a nice new scope and am looking forward to using it..

 

[ajdelange]

^ under the 5% spec for use with "sensitive" electronic devices.

Yes and I expect that it is as "bad" as it is because the field is fed by brushes. My larger generators (48 kW, one of them by Kohler) are brushless and have THD comparable to the utilities they back up.

Any photos of the waveform? Just for curiosity.

For simple THD measurement I just use a THD meter.

I just took delivery of a nice new scope and am looking forward to using it..

Looks sweet.

 

[Phil0110]

I've recently purchased Generac iQ3500 Source: https://www.propaneva.com/best-generac-generators
I have owned other generac products before and have been disappointed by them, ironically the last generac generator I owned was a gp3300, and that model was a standard pull start model not inverted and not clean power.

This is the total opposite of that.

This thing is totally silent, so quiet we chained it to one of the blocks at our fireworks tent for we were afraid someone might steal it.

Anyway I got this to directly replace the noisy older GP 3300 and I have to say this is one of the best generators I have ever owned. As mentioned this thing is near silent, even under full load it's near silent. It provides roughly 3100 Watts continuously for our purposes.

 

[Count Orlok]

our fireworks tent

thanks for the info as I'm looking at that exact generator. I had to laugh at fireworks tent as I first pictured something out of Wile E. Coyote

 

[zipzag]

I've recently purchased Generac iQ3500 Source: https://www.propaneva.com/best-generac-generators
I have owned other generac products before and have been disappointed by them, ironically the last generac generator I owned was a gp3300, and that model was a standard pull start model not inverted and not clean power.

This is the total opposite of that.

This thing is totally silent, so quiet we chained it to one of the blocks at our fireworks tent for we were afraid someone might steal it.

Anyway I got this to directly replace the noisy older GP 3300 and I have to say this is one of the best generators I have ever owned. As mentioned this thing is near silent, even under full load it's near silent. It provides roughly 3100 Watts continuously for our purposes.

Now you know why people have bought Honda and Yamaha inverter generators for decades. The question is still whether non-Japanese generators will have the same engine quality.

For backup use I like the Champion dual fuel run on propane. But when my Rivian arrives I will replace that with the Rivian inverter and 15kWh of batteries in the house.

A 1500w inverter can provide the energy requirements of a homes large critical loads panel of perhaps 15-25 kWh/day. But it can't meet the power requirements which perhaps peak in the 3-4K watt range.

 

[Thedude]

I can charge mine with my trailer’s built in generator. Inefficient but it works.

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