Any forum members have extensive experience using Electrify America?

[TessP100D]

If you simply grade the Tesla SC Network versus the EA network on total coverage then yes Tesla wins. Tesla also has the plug in charge advantage although some other brands like Ford and Porsche are beginning to add this feature in new updates. However it's only a convenience not a substantial difference. It saves a minute or two. EA did have some connection reliability issues in the beginning but last summer they did a major firmware update which basically resolved these issues.

Ultimately anyone considering any brand of EV needs to think about where they plan on going on road trips, and look at the network coverage. For example Tesla has much better coverage in the southeast and the Dakotas, but in Colorado non-Tesla networks (ChargePoint and EA) have much better coverage. This is because the state of Colorado partnered with ChargePoint and are adding a significant number of remote charging locations through out the state. So for myself, who typically doesn't go far outside of Colorado and does a lot of camping and backcountry driving, a non-Tesla EV is a better option.

Below is the map of ChargePoint chargers in Colorado. Most are complete, with a few in progress to be completed by this fall.

Now it is true a Tesla can use ChargePoint with a CHAdeMO adapter, but it's limited to 62.5kW versus most of the new ChargePoint chargers in Colorado are capable of 125kW for CCS (Rivian style plug).

The other thing to keep in mind is there are now multiple large networks being developed versus only one network supported by Tesla. It won't be long before the CCS networks combined dwarf the Tesla network.

To be 100% honest, I would be more concerned with being an early adopter of an EV startup (Rivian) versus an established automaker producing EVs (Porsche, Audi, Ford, VW) or Tesla.


ChargePoint charging locations installed by the State of Colorado

Yes I agree that overall, things are improving with public chargers, but there is a ways to go. Having a Tesla allows me to use Tesla’s Super Charging Network, and any public charging stations. Other EV’s can’t do that. So as public systems get better, it’s better for Tesla owners too. We have advantage Over every other brand.

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[ajdelange]

Tesla has, in the charging game:

1) A huge head start
2) Vertical integration
3) Doesn't and doesn't expect to, make a profit on charging
4) Seems, at this point, to still be more reliable
5) More conveniently located (at least on the trips I make in the NE corridor)

With respect to 1): No denying that Tesla has been at this longer than EA or ChargePoint. They have been at it long enough to build a network which covers most of their customers most of the time but they need to keep adding more chargers simply because they are getting more customers.

With respect to 2): In the SC network we have Tesla equipment charging Tesla equipment. There is even a rumor that the rectifiers in the charging cabinets are the same as the ones installed in the cars. Little wonder, then, that the interface is smoother.

With respect to 3): Tesla's approach has always been to use the SC network as a marketing tool. They used to give the juice away free to all owners and still do to some. Musk has stated that the SC network will never be a profit center. But competitors must cover costs and make a profit. This results in, for example, frequent reports that the electricity for a CCS trip costs more than the operator would pay for gas on the same trip in one of his ICE vehicles. This is certainly the case for me on my annual migration from DC to the Canadian border.

With respect to 4): Use PlugShare to check out the chargers you think you might be visiting on your travels (and use ABRP to figure out which ones those might be). The number of non Tesla stations that are inoperable for a number of reasons is still quite high.

With respect to 5): Tesla seems to get its chargers into freeway rest areas or in convenience store locations just off freeways. EA, the major CCS provider, tends to be at Walmarts. I have posted this before and been told it is untrue - that all Walmarts are located right next to freeway exits. All I can say is that using CCS chargers adds 20 minutes to the charging time required of my trips because of the necessity to travel to the locations (Walmarts) where the high power EA chargers are located.

As in all of this, YMMV and the comments clearly assume that road trip charging is the major concern. This assumes that home charging is adequately covered which is not the case for everyone.

 

[Bumble1978]

I would Say of all the providers they are the main ones of 150kw+ charging across the USA. I have used them on several occasions and their stations work well probably about 75% of the time, if you check out insideev Kyle/Out of Spec motoring you will see his road trip videos and how he try and uses EA chargers with a somewhat successful luck. Most of the time the vehicles charging curve is what is the issue and the vehicle plug and charge (Mach E) has become an issue lately as it doesnt work well with EA fast charging for some odd reason.

To answer your question, it works, mostly well, most of the time. It would save lots of time if you had a EA account + their NFC pass and or their app which I would only buy when road tripping really.

Because of Kyle's video that I discovered the same throttling on my 2011 Leaf, not that I road trip it much...well with about 50 miles of range tops I cannot get too far...but I digress..

The Leaf's ChaDeMO loves to taper really bad past 55% Tried it last time I drove to Seattle and back monitoring the pack's temps with LeafSpy. Granted I don't use it often in situations where I need to DCFC. But when I do I've just always planned for a solid hour of charging from 20-80%.

Here's what I discovered - from anything less than 20% to about 55-60% it'll pull about 40kW. Tapers down to about 15kW by about 65%, so I tried his trick. Stopped the session, started again and I was back up to about 35kW! Win.

Granted this is dial-up bandwith compared to the fiber-like connection of 100+kW many EV's can pull these days, but compared to L2 at 3.3kW...it's all relative.

 

[kanundrum]

Because of Kyle's video that I discovered the same throttling on my 2011 Leaf, not that I road trip it much...well with about 50 miles of range tops I cannot get too far...but I digress..

The Leaf's ChaDeMO loves to taper really bad past 55% Tried it last time I drove to Seattle and back monitoring the pack's temps with LeafSpy. Granted I don't use it often in situations where I need to DCFC. But when I do I've just always planned for a solid hour of charging from 20-80%.

Here's what I discovered - from anything less than 20% to about 55-60% it'll pull about 40kW. Tapers down to about 15kW by about 65%, so I tried his trick. Stopped the session, started again and I was back up to about 35kW! Win.

Granted this is dial-up bandwith compared to the fiber-like connection of 100+kW many EV's can pull these days, but compared to L2 at 3.3kW...it's all relative.

More or less the same, it tapers past 82% but up until then its a full 64kw which is pretty awesome. Either way from 0 the car is about 30 or so minutes to charge to 90% because the pack is so small.

 

[SeaGeo]

Amen, amen, amen. People love to get all hung up on taper rates and how Tesla is cheating with their taper curves, 400 V vs. 800V etc. How long does it take to charge a BEV fully? About an hour. That's because the current generation of lithium batteries are charged at the average rate of about 1C. Thus the 100 kWh battery in a Tesla MX will take about 100 kWh of energy per hour (provided, of course, that you have a charger that can deliver 100 kW). A Rivian R1T with a 180 kWh battery will also take about an hour to charge fully provided that you have a 180 kW or larger charger available.

Now this very handy rule of thumb does not, in fact, apply to the case where one charges from 0% to 100% but very few people actually do that and they do it rarely. Where it's really helpful is in trip planning. If you are going to use 60% of your battery in traveling to your first charging stop and plan to replenish that energy there then you will have to charge about 0.6*60 = 36 minutes as long as the charger rating in kW is greater than your battery size in kWh. You won't replace 60% charge in a 180 kWh battery with a 60 kW charger.

I disagree here based on C rate for batteries. For example, the Ioniq 5 has an average C rate of a bit more than 2 depending on their buffer to go from from 10 to 80% in 18 minutes.

 

[Bumble1978]

More or less the same, it tapers past 82% but up until then its a full 64kw which is pretty awesome. Either way from 0 the car is about 30 or so minutes to charge to 90% because the pack is so small.

Mine is degraded to about 13kWh usable (~65% SOH for the usable 19kWh of the 24 total in the pack).

It's really hard for me to fathom just how big 180kWh is. lol. My friend went from a Leaf to a Model 3 SR+ last December and six months in remains not used to 'having all that range' lol

 

[ajdelange]

I disagree here based on C rate for batteries. For example, the Ioniq 5 has an average C rate of a bit more than 2 depending on their buffer to go from from 10 to 80% in 18 minutes.

That's cool. What kind of times are you actually seeing?

Remember that this is a rule of thumb which you should modify for your own use. If you are consistently seeing 2C average then you modify the rule of thumb to 30*%/100 minutes.

 

[SeaGeo]

That's cool. What kind of times are you actually seeing?

It is! They may end up blowing some batteries, but that's what they're trying. lol.

Here's a video from Hyundai supposedly showing one charge 5 to 80% in that time frame.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/26/hyundai-ioniq-5-charge-to-80-percent-18-minutes-charge-rate-video/

Here's a video that shows it charging for 4 to 5 minutes starting at 40% battery from an early "review". He finished at 58% after those 5 minutes, so C-rate of ~2 even at that high charge.

 

[manitou202]

I disagree here based on C rate for batteries. For example, the Ioniq 5 has an average C rate of a bit more than 2 depending on their buffer to go from from 10 to 80% in 18 minutes.

Keep in mind that some of the automakers don't allow for full charging and discharging of the battery. I know for example that Audi/Porsche provide a big top and bottom buffer. So a 100% charge might only be 80-90% of the theoretical capacity of the battery. An E-tron can charge from 0-100% in about 45 minutes but it's average C rating based on the true battery capacity is lower than this would imply.

It will be interesting to see how much of a buffer Rivian uses.

 

[ajdelange]

I said it was cool but it's actually pretty hot!. Wish stations in US were that nice. Of course at 2C you aren't going to spend that much time at them.

 

[SeaGeo]

Keep in mind that some of the automakers don't allow for full charging and discharging of the battery. I know for example that Audi/Porsche provide a big top and bottom buffer. So a 100% charge might only be 80-90% of the theoretical capacity of the battery. An E-tron can charge from 0-100% in about 45 minutes but it's average C rating based on the true battery capacity is lower than this would imply.

It will be interesting to see how much of a buffer Rivian uses.

Right. Which is why I mentioned the buffer.

 

[SeaGeo]

I said it was cool but it's actually pretty hot!. Wish stations in US were that nice. Of course at 2C you aren't going to spend that much time at them.

lol, I know right? It was interesting watching him drive around in Korea and see how some areas look a little....run down, and then he ends up at this futuristic charging facility.

I do like the drop down charger idea though. That avoids a whole bunch of annoying issues with those big ass cables.

 

[manitou202]

Right. Which is why I mentioned the buffer.

Sorry, my bad.

 

[SeaGeo]

Sorry, my bad.

no worries, I was being lazy and didn't want to look up buffers. Either way, the Ioniq 5 (for example) is well above 1C for 0 to 80% unless they have an absurdly large buffer. Which would really surprise me.

 

[ajdelange]

An E-tron can charge from 0-100% in about 45 minutes but it's average C rating based on the true battery capacity is lower than this would imply.

"C" in this context is the "capacity" of the battery in kWh i.e. the amount of power you must put into it to get it to change it's state from "full" to "empty" which are arbitrarily set by the manufacturer. Thus we never know what the actual C rating of the battery is. In using this rule of thumb you use the % SoC as shown on the instrument panel and your watch.

It will be interesting to see how much of a buffer Rivian uses.

It would be very interesting but we'll never see that. You may have noticed that Telsa has taken the capacity labeling off its battery pack and that Rivien no longer speaks in terms of 108, 120 and 180 kWh batteries. The trend is towards giving the consumer less and less information.

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