20" Inch Nitto Terra Grappler vs. Toyo AT3 EV Tires -- 10 Size Options!

[ksurfier]

As it turns out, there are a ton of options for both of these tires. My impression is that Nitto is better suited for onroad use and Toyo is more off-road oriented. That being said, the only 116H rating is the Toyo (275/65R20). Prices range from $300 to $500 each, median price of $400. Toyos tend to be $440 and Nittos $360.
EDIT: Appears the Grappler is also 116H…(conflicting info…)


For those looking to maximize range, the 33” grapplers are $290 and likely less noise than the Toyos. At 42# the Toyos (33”, 34”) are lite weight and should be very efficient.

if looking for LT size, Toyo has 33” and 34” options (or even 35.7”) while Nitto has 33.5”/34” options.

Average efficiency will range from 1.7 to 2.3 MPK depending on weight and what PSI is used (on Lots).

Will be interesting which model and size people end up with, so many options!

note tread depth is 32nds inches:

***** - please note: using conserve mode/ inflating to 80 psi may result in higher MPK for LT sizes*********

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[racekarl]

This is awesome, thank you!

A few Qs:
- What are you using to generate the MPK figures?
- What is "Tread (")"? I assume tread depth, but surely the unit is not inches then.

 

[ksurfier]

This is awesome, thank you!

A few Qs:
- What are you using to generate the MPK figures?
- What is "Tread (")"? I assume tread depth, but surely the unit is not inches then.

32nds for tread depth
Guesstimates for efficiency (related to tire weight), alts max PSI is 80 so there’s possibility to increase efficiency at expense of ride quality (65 psi vs 50 psi).

the 35.7” Toyos look interesting!

 

[ATL_R1S]

Guesstimates for efficiency (related to tire weight),

That's where I'm unsure if these MPK estimates are accurate. Toyo's site does indeed list the 275/65/20 116H AT3 EV at 43 lbs, which seems incredibly light for what it is, then TireRack's site lists it at 48lbs, which is more believable considering it's a true AT tire.

The Nitto Terra Grappler G3 275/65/20 116T is listed on both Nitto's site and TireRack at 47lbs.

I am not convinced that the Toyo will be more efficient than the Nitto. I feel like the real numbers would contrast your estimates, consider the Nitto is considered an "on-road all terrain" tire and was engineered for mostly road use, and to be lighter than most true ATs.

Getting each tire on the same scale would be ideal, as I still have a hard time believing that the Toyo is lighter than the Nitto in the aforementioned specs.

 

[Chez]

I just put the Nitto LT 34” on my R1T. Definitely a little more noise than the 21” which was expected. The ride is not as soft as expected but the range is slightly less which I thought would be significant. I’m very happy with the upgrade and see no negatives so far. About 300 miles in.

 

[ksurfier]

That's where I'm unsure if these MPK estimates are accurate. Toyo's site does indeed list the 275/65/20 116H AT3 EV at 43 lbs, which seems incredibly light for what it is, then TireRack's site lists it at 48lbs, which is more believable considering it's a true AT tire.

The Nitto Terra Grappler G3 275/65/20 116T is listed on both Nitto's site and TireRack at 47lbs.

I am not convinced that the Toyo will be more efficient than the Nitto. I feel like the real numbers would contrast your estimates, consider the Nitto is considered an "on-road all terrain" tire and was engineered for mostly road use, and to be lighter than most true ATs.

Getting each tire on the same scale would be ideal, as I still have a hard time believing that the Toyo is lighter than the Nitto in the aforementioned specs.

They can never be “accurate”. Only estimates as the environmental conditions (temp/wind/terrain/driving style/driving mode) and other factors like air density/elevation have a huge impact on these values. The key is simply that with a 60 pound tire you can expect significantly less efficiency than a 40 pound tire. I can’t speak to the accuracy of Nitto/Toyo spec sheets…always possible someone made an error…hell, Brian has been begging Goodyear to update the tire photos for months now…

My main point is that for both these options there are 10 variations to consider based on price and other factors…

 

[out2dasea]

I had the experience of having both of these tires. My Toyo’s had an issue causing an atypical noise above 50mph. They thought one of the tires were bad. Since they were out of stock I switched to the nittos. The nittos are definitely quieter and smoother. Can’t comment on efficiency yet as I sit. Have enough miles. The Toyo was at 2.08 and I had about 1400 miles on them. The nittos only have 200 miles and I’m at 2.03 so far.

 

[ksurfier]

I had the experience of having both of these tires. My Toyo’s had an issue causing an atypical noise above 50mph. They thought one of the tires were bad. Since they were out of stock I switched to the nittos. The nittos are definitely quieter and smoother. Can’t comment on efficiency yet as I sit. Have enough miles. The Toyo was at 2.08 and I had about 1400 miles on them. The nittos only have 200 miles and I’m at 2.03 so far.

Sorry, which sizes?

 

[out2dasea]

Both 275/65/20. Both 116

 

[ADVNOW]

I have the Toyo AT3ev LT275 65 R20 they are quitter and more efficient than the OEM Pirelli AT.

I was informed by Toyo to run them at 53psi on road for max traction and efficiency.
I was getting 2.11 on the Pirelli's Im getting 2.38 on the Toyo's so not sure where you got the MPK 1.9

Pirelli's

Toyo

I have 5,800 miles on them now no regrates, been off roading in sand and also my daily commuter.

Traction is great Ride is good.
I would not use a taller tire in lowest ride height setting if there is to much of a slope for a drive way it will rub a little while turning other than that no other rubbing issues.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Toyo a/t 3 Ev tires.

 

[R1Thor]

That's where I'm unsure if these MPK estimates are accurate. Toyo's site does indeed list the 275/65/20 116H AT3 EV at 43 lbs, which seems incredibly light for what it is, then TireRack's site lists it at 48lbs, which is more believable considering it's a true AT tire.

The Nitto Terra Grappler G3 275/65/20 116T is listed on both Nitto's site and TireRack at 47lbs.

I am not convinced that the Toyo will be more efficient than the Nitto. I feel like the real numbers would contrast your estimates, consider the Nitto is considered an "on-road all terrain" tire and was engineered for mostly road use, and to be lighter than most true ATs.

Getting each tire on the same scale would be ideal, as I still have a hard time believing that the Toyo is lighter than the Nitto in the aforementioned specs.

You're right to be dubious.

From an Engineering (and physics) perspective, weight is one of several factors that will affect efficiency performance. Yet people continue to insist on focusing on it.

Rolling resistance is the absolute biggest deciding factor, by a wide margin. However, the reality is: tire manufacturers aren't (currently) reporting rolling resistance numbers.

Regardless, durometer of the contact patch and overall cross sectional area of the contact patch will be 100% more relevant than the weight of the tires, for sure.

 

[mkhuffman]

You're right to be dubious.

From an Engineering (and physics) perspective, weight is one of several factors that will affect efficiency performance. Yet people continue to insist on focusing on it.

Rolling resistance is the absolute biggest deciding factor, by a wide margin. However, the reality is: tire manufacturers aren't (currently) reporting rolling resistance numbers.

Regardless, durometer of the contact patch and overall cross sectional area of the contact patch will be 100% more relevant than the weight of the tires, for sure.

100%.

Rolling resistance is the biggest factor and impacts steady state speed, accelerating and deaccelerating. Weight only impacts acceleration resistance, and some of that can be recovered with regen when slowing down.

At a steady state speed, weight has no impact on efficiency. At steady state speed, there are two wheel related factors that impact efficiency: aerodynamics and rolling resistance.

Weight does have an impact, but assigning a mi/kWh rating based on weight is not even close to an accurate way to judge tire efficiency.

 

[ksurfier]

I have the Toyo AT3ev LT275 65 R20 they are quitter and more efficient than the OEM Pirelli AT.

I was informed by Toyo to run them at 53psi on road for max traction and efficiency.
I was getting 2.11 on the Pirelli's Im getting 2.38 on the Toyo's so not sure where you got the MPK 1.9

Pirelli's

Toyo

I have 5,800 miles on them now no regrates, been off roading in sand and also my daily commuter.

Traction is great Ride is good.
I would not use a taller tire in lowest ride height setting if there is to much of a slope for a drive way it will rub a little while turning other than that no other rubbing issues.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Toyo a/t 3 Ev tires.

Using conserve, AP, sport, mix?
What’s average speed?
Any of this at elevation/hot temps?

For a 7# heavier tire than OEM, I would not expect it to be >10% more efficient. Also, why did #out2dasea only get 2.08 MPK using the non-LT size?

it’s an extremely well known rule that heavier tires always result in lower efficiency…I love when the anti-tire weight brigade shows up…always a good time!

Read here, please! - https://carstrucksroads.com/impact-of-tire-weight/?

“Research indicates that reducing tire weight by just a few pounds can lead to noticeable fuel savings, increasing efficiency by as much as 2% to 3% in some cases. Additionally, lighter tires can decrease the unsprung weight, leading to better suspension performance and enhanced ride comfort. Understanding these dynamics allows for better tire choices tailored to driving style and vehicle needs.”

 

[R1Thor]

Using conserve, AP, sport, mix?
What’s average speed?
Any of this at elevation/hot temps?

For a 7# heavier tire than OEM, I would not expect it to be >10% more efficient. Also, why did #out2dasea only get 2.08 MPK using the non-LT size?

it’s an extremely well known rule that heavier tires always result in lower efficiency…I love when the anti-tire weight brigade shows up…always a good time!

Read here, please! - https://carstrucksroads.com/impact-of-tire-weight/?

“Research indicates that reducing tire weight by just a few pounds can lead to noticeable fuel savings, increasing efficiency by as much as 2% to 3% in some cases. Additionally, lighter tires can decrease the unsprung weight, leading to better suspension performance and enhanced ride comfort. Understanding these dynamics allows for better tire choices tailored to driving style and vehicle needs.”

You want to have a pissing match, that's fine. I have better things to do, so this is the last point I'll make.

Continue to believe you're super correct because you googled for a biased opinion and posted the thing that agrees with you. I just googled rolling resistance and efficiency and guess what???

Cognitive dissonance shows intellect. (Your article claims 'studies show,' but cited zero sources. Further, I agree 100% with the article. Except it said nothing about rolling resistance. It said weight was a factor. Sure. Give me 2 tires with the same durometer and coefficient of friction and cross sectional area--the weight will then become the decision maker, absolutely without a doubt. Further, this article was written with ICE vehicles in mind which I suspect lack Regen... Sorry, but there's no context in this super long article that says a whole lotta nothing).

 

[ksurfier]

You want to have a pissing match, that's fine. I have better things to do, so this is the last point I'll make.

Continue to believe you're super correct because you googled for a biased opinion and posted the thing that agrees with you. I just googled rolling resistance and efficiency and guess what???

Cognitive dissonance shows intellect. (Your article claims 'studies show,' but cited zero sources. Further, I agree 100% with the article. Except it said nothing about rolling resistance. It said weight was a factor. Sure. Give me 2 tires with the same durometer and coefficient of friction and cross sectional area--the weight will then become the decision maker, absolutely without a doubt. Further, this article was written with ICE vehicles in mind which I suspect lack Regen... Sorry, but there's no context in this super long article that says a whole lotta nothing).

sorry - supported my argument and you did not support yours…

Look forward to you providing anything about how tire weight is not a key factor for efficiency…

https://cedstires.com/the-impact-of-truck-tires-on-fuel-efficiency/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

“TIRE SIZE AND WEIGHT
The size and weight of your truck tires also affect fuel efficiency. Larger, heavier tires require more energy to rotate, leading to higher fuel consumption. When choosing new truck tires, consider the manufacturer’s specifications for your vehicle to avoid unnecessary increases in weight and size that can negatively impact fuel economy.

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