Impressions from a rental fleet owner with a Rivian R1S

[Bee]

I pulled the trigger a month or so ago on starting a rental fleet and am using Turo as an on-ramp. Years of "good moves" on cars put me in a good position to do this and I'm having a blast. My Rivian R1S is the pride of my fleet and the joy I get out of this job is teaching people new to EVs how to use them.

Overall having mostly EVs in my fleet I'm finding 3 cars people continually walk away impressed and wanting to buy the car, in this order:

1. 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV Premiere
2. 2023 Rivian R1S
3. 2021 Hyundai Kona Electric

So while the R1S is doing exactly what I expected here, the Bolt and Kona are the surprises. I think it's the unexpected quality at the price point, people know what they want and will get with a Model 3 or an Ioniq 5 but they value-rent the Bolt and Kona and are completely taken back by the experience having a Civic or Elantra in their heads when they tumble out of the airport and have their first EV experience.

As for the Rivian, I'm finding it's a 50-50 split. People who have had Teslas in the one half, people who have never driven an EV before in the other half. I said Tesla on purpose. I've yet to get a single renter who was like, "I've had a Leaf, and Ioniq 5 and now this is my R1S." It's all Tesla/EV newbs. It's absolutely 100% "approval" rate from the renters, they all love it.

Being in NYC, I'm finding I'm renting to people with $450k+ household incomes. These people have no grit. What I mean is that they rent the car, excited, happy, they take the car to their vacation homes in like Vermont or the Adirondacks or something and then proceed to freak the hell out about the infrastructure. I can leave a couple and their family specific charging instructions and they'll skip the last one and be like, "the kids were asleep" and then text me the next morning plugged in level 1 and bitching about the experience. I routinely find myself in situations where with cheaper EVs I give instructions, they're followed, people are thrilled, that with the Rivian there's this entitled expectation that everything should just work. The former Tesla people "get it" and usually have L2s in their garages and junk, but specifically, upper middle class people who are new to EVs, they'll say they understand the infrastructure sucks but even if they have a route that has all the chargers and instructions, they'll still fail because "they've had enough."

These "no grit" people I'm speaking of, I'd be surprised if a single one of them was a member on here. I think this is the future that is emerging for specifically the R1S, suburban families with 1-2 kids buying a car that's way to big for their needs as a status symbol expecting literal 0 inconvenience or learning curve. No matter how much you prep them for the learning curve and they're like, "We're so game! This is why we rented this" at some point there's going to be frustration expressed to me.

Fun story about the "no grit" people, it's been working out universally that they're happy when they leave me, pissed the day after and then the third day and beyond they decide they love the car and are trying to flex their muscles to get infrastructure installed at public locations near their vacation homes, lol.

It's a super interesting dynamic. Rich people are usually the easy ones to rent to but this has flipped the script, now they're a pain in the ass. I have fun with it though, I truly do get enjoyment out of teaching people the ropes and consider it a success when they walk away "converted."

So anyways, that's my ramble on where I think this car's image is heading. It's going to be like a Land Rover, there's going to be enthusiasts like us, but the majority of people it's just an expensive piece of jewelry overcompensating for safety anxiety and/or status. So, exactly what most people probably expected, with the added hilarity of entitlement.

Introspection bonus: We should all realize that many of us are in this same income bracket and aren't too far off from this behavior. I can see myself being either the Bolt or Rivian renters, personally, depending on my mindset. Money makes us assholes even if we're not assholes on the inside.

/ramble off

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[Robin]

I pulled the trigger a month or so ago on starting a rental fleet and am using Turo as an on-ramp. Years of "good moves" on cars put me in a good position to do this and I'm having a blast. My Rivian R1S is the pride of my fleet and the joy I get out of this job is teaching people new to EVs how to use them.

Overall having mostly EVs in my fleet I'm finding 3 cars people continually walk away impressed and wanting to buy the car, in this order:

1. 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV Premiere
2. 2023 Rivian R1S
3. 2021 Hyundai Kona Electric

So while the R1S is doing exactly what I expected here, the Bolt and Kona are the surprises. I think it's the unexpected quality at the price point, people know what they want and will get with a Model 3 or an Ioniq 5 but they value-rent the Bolt and Kona and are completely taken back by the experience having a Civic or Elantra in their heads when they tumble out of the airport and have their first EV experience.

As for the Rivian, I'm finding it's a 50-50 split. People who have had Teslas in the one half, people who have never driven an EV before in the other half. I said Tesla on purpose. I've yet to get a single renter who was like, "I've had a Leaf, and Ioniq 5 and now this is my R1S." It's all Tesla/EV newbs. It's absolutely 100% "approval" rate from the renters, they all love it.

Being in NYC, I'm finding I'm renting to people with $450k+ household incomes. These people have no grit. What I mean is that they rent the car, excited, happy, they take the car to their vacation homes in like Vermont or the Adirondacks or something and then proceed to freak the hell out about the infrastructure. I can leave a couple and their family specific charging instructions and they'll skip the last one and be like, "the kids were asleep" and then text me the next morning plugged in level 1 and bitching about the experience. I routinely find myself in situations where with cheaper EVs I give instructions, they're followed, people are thrilled, that with the Rivian there's this entitled expectation that everything should just work. The former Tesla people "get it" and usually have L2s in their garages and junk, but specifically, upper middle class people who are new to EVs, they'll say they understand the infrastructure sucks but even if they have a route that has all the chargers and instructions, they'll still fail because "they've had enough."

These "no grit" people I'm speaking of, I'd be surprised if a single one of them was a member on here. I think this is the future that is emerging for specifically the R1S, suburban families with 1-2 kids buying a car that's way to big for their needs as a status symbol expecting literal 0 inconvenience or learning curve. No matter how much you prep them for the learning curve and they're like, "We're so game! This is why we rented this" at some point there's going to be frustration expressed to me.

Fun story about the "no grit" people, it's been working out universally that they're happy when they leave me, pissed the day after and then the third day and beyond they decide they love the car and are trying to flex their muscles to get infrastructure installed at public locations near their vacation homes, lol.

It's a super interesting dynamic. Rich people are usually the easy ones to rent to but this has flipped the script, now they're a pain in the ass. I have fun with it though, I truly do get enjoyment out of teaching people the ropes and consider it a success when they walk away "converted."

So anyways, that's my ramble on where I think this car's image is heading. It's going to be like a Land Rover, there's going to be enthusiasts like us, but the majority of people it's just an expensive piece of jewelry overcompensating for safety anxiety and/or status. So, exactly what most people probably expected, with the added hilarity of entitlement.

Introspection bonus: We should all realize that many of us are in this same income bracket and aren't too far off from this behavior. I can see myself being either the Bolt or Rivian renters, personally, depending on my mindset. Money makes us assholes even if we're not assholes on the inside.

/ramble off

Awesome write up, enjoyed reading it. God forbid I have to rent a car , I hope it’s an EV. BTW, I loved my Bolt EUV, that’s what got me turned on to EVs, when I drive my boyfriend’s hybrid/gas car, I hate it. I love my R1T and gotta say, it’s been a BIG learning curve apart from the simple Chevy Bolt and I’m still learning new stuff every day thru forums like this and software updates..Within the first week of owning my Rivian, I printed out the whole damned manual, all 267 pages, I’m one of “those” people, I like tangible stuff incase I can’t access my guide thru the truck. When i had the Manuel ring binded at Kinkos, it was show and tell on my R1T. Half the the employees at printing place wanted to see this all “electric truck “. And charging at public places has been a learning curve and getting better although I charge 90% at home. Thanks for the intelligent article and perspective on people...???

 

[atR1S]

I appreciate your post and insights. I’m in a different business (property management), but I see a dwindling ability in people to problem solve, which is related to the “no grit” comments. I was new to EV’s when we bought the R1T just over a year ago. We recently bought an R1S and are full EV now. IMO a part of owning an EV, especially one from a new company, is learning to problem solve and be ready for a curveball or two.

 

[COdogman]

Thanks for sharing your interesting perspective on this. Many people seem unable or unwilling to follow instructions these days. It wouldn’t matter except they blame everyone else but themselves for it.

I disagree there aren’t people like that here though… They typically show up with 0-4 posts and have a meltdown over some minor issue or perceived insult they believe they have suffered at the hands of Rivian and then disappear after everyone explains to them they are just being a Karen.

 

[BigSkies]

Very interesting experience on the demographics and expectations.

I think about this a lot when I think about my parents getting an EV. Both of them would be a very good fit for them in some ways. But I can't envision my mom figuring out charging or the new infotainment systems. She doesn't even own a smartphone. There are lots of people in the world that just have trouble adapting to new things. Sometimes it's age based, and other times its based on a willingness to learn, grow, and live with friction.

I think part of that grit thing can be traveling with kids as well. I know I can deal with plenty of setbacks when I'm on my own. But trying to deal with setbacks when I've got a grumpy wife in the car and two hungry whiny kids is a whole different level.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I don't think it's just well off people that have these problems. As someone who employs others I can tell you with certainty that helpless and clueless is the norm for people today regardless of income bracket. I would think that people in the 450K + range would be more likely to be able to follow instructions as being successful usually comes from a decent amount of adaptability.

Perhaps some of these renters are not "EV people" where as people wanting to rent the lower end EVs are doing it because they are an EV the people who are renting the Rivian are doing it because it's a Rivian and what they've heard about Rivian's. That's a good thing for Rivian as it means it has cross market appeal.

EVs are new, and unlike a renter, I was also new to EVs but since I wanted a Rivian I figured that I need to learn about them. I had zero issues when I got mine simply because I already had a L2 installed in my garage and I learned about how EVs worked from mainly people here in this forum. I would think a large portion of the early adopters of Rivian are in the income bracket you speak of and I don't know that they are all having the same problems you're implying.

I think you're getting a perfect storm of people who just want to say they've driven an Rivian because of what it is and having these same people not prepared for the reality of EVs as it stands now with charging. With that said it's really not hard to figure out that you're going to need a charger and how to plan for it. Sure infrastructure isn't great, but I've made the transition so easily that my wife is trading her ICE Audi in for an EV early next year.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I think another factor could be where you are in the country. Here an income of 450K a year puts you solidly into the upper class where it's still middle class in a place like NYC. Cost of living varies a great deal in this country. The other thing I think might be a factor is you mentioned in living in NYC and there are a lot of services available there to people who make good money that aren't available in other areas.

The more these people are able to specialize and outsource the less adaptable they are. Here it's not realistic to simply hire out all your day to day stuff because finding reliable people is a hassle in and of itself. So you are still doing your own work and it's still seen as valuable to do for yourself here. That keeps people more humble. Plus rudeness in general is viewed more negatively down here in the South than it is in the North. Being from WI originally there is a real difference to how people talk and behave down here in general.

I guess in short what I'm saying is your conclusions might be valid for an income level in your particular city but that probably says more about your city than it does about that income level or EV adoption in the whole country.

 

[Aardvark]

The popularity of the Bolt EUV is evidence to me of how much pent up demand there is for a sub-$30k EV (after tax credits). I'm not a fan of GM when it comes to EVs, but they seem to get it.
If they sold it in the US, I think the VW ID3 would sell well.

 

[madgrey]

I think you're getting a perfect storm of people who just want to say they've driven an Rivian because of what it is and having these same people not prepared for the reality of EVs as it stands now with charging. With that said it's really not hard to figure out that you're going to need a charger and how to plan for it. Sure infrastructure isn't great, but I've made the transition so easily that my wife is trading her ICE Audi in for an EV early next year.

Yes, big difference between renting and owning. Most of us on this forum are waiting/waited a long time and spent a good part of it reading about Rivian, charging and EVs in general to make the experience as positive as possible. Some of those rentals may have been on impulse. We're reaching the point were people will be able to decide, order and receive a Rivian in a short period of time. I wonder if there will be more buyer's remorse?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Plus rudeness in general is viewed more negatively down here in the South than it is in the North.

Bless your heart

 

[SDH]

I'm with you on the lack of grit thing. Heard recently about a bunch of very well paid employees working for a well known tech company who are up in arms and threatening not to come into the office (they barely do anyway) because of ...wait for it....

... a change in the free oat milk supplier.

I shit you not.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Bless your heart

Exactly. That's what you're likely to hear down here instead of outright rudeness. Although there are exceptions to every rule of course.

 

[FutureTruck]

Great post, thanks for sharing your experience. I just lined up a Taycan rental on Turo for later this summer and I was sure to message the owner “Don’t worry, I have an EV and am used to dealing with charging and Electrify America”.

 

[tgo10000]

I would say money makes people disconnected, it’s entirely a choice whether or not someone is an asshole. Thanks for sharing your experience. I’ve doing been something similar.

 

[HighVoltOverland]

These people have no grit.

The type of folks that have more money that sense, it seems.

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