Someone, talk me out of dumping my R1T

[mkhuffman]

I actually took a tech with me and showed him the issue, with a pickup pulling a trailer beside me.

Its "normal" because all R1s do it, I guess.

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[2kwik4u]

Median miles are 10000miles. 50% of drivers drive less than 10000 miles.

12v is bad, but not that bad. I am at 25k and 3.5 years on original batteries. Your car may have a problem.

Source for median mileage?
I'm using this: https://www.consumershield.com/articles/average-miles-driven-per-year

12V is effing awful when it fails. It's not like you just can't start and drive. You can't access the interior, and if you can access the interior, you can't access the center console, the frunk, or the gear tunnel. I've had my wallet locked in the center console already, and unable to retrieve it until the truck was towed to the service center. This is completely glazing over the lack of physical door handles in the back of a 2nd gen, or the inability to put the vehicle in neutral. The last time it died, Rivian sent a tow truck that, quite literally, drug my truck out of the garage with the wheels locked. I've been driving for 30yrs, had more dead batteries than I can count, and have never experienced this level of systemic failure with just a dead battery.

My truck definitely has problems, but that doesn't change how awful the experience is when it fails. First failure was on its own. Second was two days after they were replaced because mobile service "didn't properly clear error codes", the 3rd time was 6mo later when the 12v contactors failed. So, it's not just the battery, it's the 12V system in general.

 

[2kwik4u]

Its "normal" because all R1s do it, I guess.

Rivian has a huge problem with "that's normal" being used in place of "that's acceptable". They've told me multiple times that the suspension clunks in my truck are "normal", but that doesn't mean I think it's acceptable. They seem to use the terms interchangeably.

 

[CrazyOne]

Source for median mileage?
I'm using this: https://www.consumershield.com/articles/average-miles-driven-per-year

12V is effing awful when it fails. It's not like you just can't start and drive. You can't access the interior, and if you can access the interior, you can't access the center console, the frunk, or the gear tunnel. I've had my wallet locked in the center console already, and unable to retrieve it until the truck was towed to the service center. This is completely glazing over the lack of physical door handles in the back of a 2nd gen, or the inability to put the vehicle in neutral. The last time it died, Rivian sent a tow truck that, quite literally, drug my truck out of the garage with the wheels locked. I've been driving for 30yrs, had more dead batteries than I can count, and have never experienced this level of systemic failure with just a dead battery.

My truck definitely has problems, but that doesn't change how awful the experience is when it fails. First failure was on its own. Second was two days after they were replaced because mobile service "didn't properly clear error codes", the 3rd time was 6mo later when the 12v contactors failed. So, it's not just the battery, it's the 12V system in general.

I am not quite sure where you are going. I thought you said that $700 for battery replacement was ok, because that is the "normal" cost of oil change. I don't think $700 is normal for ICE oil changes or EV battery replacements. fwiw, I think 12v replacement will cost about $900 with taxes and 2 batteries for mine.

I replace 12v on our ICE vehicles after 6-7 years and it's as simple as a trip to Costco and 30 mins to replace it.

 

[2kwik4u]

I am not quite sure where you are going. I thought you said that $700 for battery replacement was ok, because that is the "normal" cost of oil change. I don't think $700 is normal for ICE oil changes or EV battery replacements. fwiw, I think 12v replacement will cost about $900 with taxes and 2 batteries for mine.

I replace 12v on our ICE vehicles after 6-7 years and it's as simple as a trip to Costco and 30 mins to replace it.

OK, lets reset.

$700/yr for oil changes is reasonable if you drive more than average, and you have a similarly priced/optioned/class ICEV to the R1T/R1S. Someone said it wasn't reasonable, and I responded that I think it is. We disagree.

$700/yr for battery changes is not reasonable, and feels excessive. We agree. I put a single battery in my wife's Nissan Rogue in the 8yrs we've owned it, I think it was $150. Never put one in my Q7 in the 3-1/2yrs I owned it. I've put 3 in my Rivian in 32k miles. I've spent $0 on them because they've been covered under warranty, however if I had to pay for them I would be out ~$2,100 based on the $700/battery change.

$700 (or $900) to change a battery is ridiculous. Even a top shelf, high capacity AGM battery doesn't cost that much. Even more so when you see how tiny the 12V batteries in the Rivian are. If my current usage rate is any indication, then it's going to get very expensive for me very quickly outside of warranty.

Beyond the cost discussion, there is a secondary discussion of the impact of 12V failure. Which, in a Rivian, is significantly higher than a traditional ICEV. Not sure if we agree or disagree here to be honest.

 

[CrazyOne]

OK, lets reset.

$700/yr for oil changes is reasonable if you drive more than average, and you have a similarly priced/optioned/class ICEV to the R1T/R1S. Someone said it wasn't reasonable, and I responded that I think it is. We disagree.

$700/yr for battery changes is not reasonable, and feels excessive. We agree. I put a single battery in my wife's Nissan Rogue in the 8yrs we've owned it, I think it was $150. Never put one in my Q7 in the 3-1/2yrs I owned it. I've put 3 in my Rivian in 32k miles. I've spent $0 on them because they've been covered under warranty, however if I had to pay for them I would be out ~$2,100 based on the $700/battery change.

$700 (or $900) to change a battery is ridiculous. Even a top shelf, high capacity AGM battery doesn't cost that much. Even more so when you see how tiny the 12V batteries in the Rivian are. If my current usage rate is any indication, then it's going to get very expensive for me very quickly outside of warranty.

Beyond the cost discussion, there is a secondary discussion of the impact of 12V failure. Which, in a Rivian, is significantly higher than a traditional ICEV. Not sure if we agree or disagree here to be honest.

I think we agree on most things.

 

[David Yunker]

I took delivery December 31st 2022. I have the original 12 volt batteries. I haven't had any issues. I was at the SC and asked them to check the 12 volt system. They told me its fine and that the car would alert me when the batteries need replacing. The fact that this guy had no warning concerns me. I charge to 70% every night in my garage. I drive approximately 100 miles per day. I think Im brutal on the batteries because I use my car to show property and leave the heating and cooling on while out of the vehicle. In not sure if the HVAC is being powered by the 12 volt or the big battery. So far so good at 50,000 miles.

 

[RussRivian]

I think keeping a vehicle or not depends on your feelings on the value it offers. I will share my feelings financially and emotionally. (TLDR: YOU MUST KEEP IT!)

Financially: I'm leaving off the government incentives we enjoyed, as they are no longer available. We purchased our New Gen 1 R1T, July 2022, $84,500 - INITIALLY DELIGHTED WITH IT!! To date (47,156 miles) I have $90,022 in it (total) for tires, registrations, inspections, insurance, 12V batteries (3x), and "Rivian Connect" which I find necessary. This year I project costs will be $2,014 including 12v battery escrow. We meter it, and we know that our electricity cost to drive is 13 cents per mile (on average of all Pennsylvania seasons) at 18 cents per kWh. Fuel economy: that's about equivalent to a 32 MPG ICE car. [My 2014 Avalon Hybrid costs 10 cents per mile for gas at today's $3/gal rates.] So far, the Rivian total per mile cost to own and drive is $1.91 per mile. IRS per mile allowance is 73 cents. As I enjoy more trouble-free miles, that cost will drop, but obviously, you don't own these for economic reasons. Why then do Rivian owners have such high satisfaction rates? Because we LOVE our "special" cars. Costs listed include my failed investment in OHMMU LiPo "do it yourself" 12v repair. I could handle the constant idiot light, but I couldn't live without the updates that it blocked when on.

Emotionally: LOVE THIS VEHICLE! I rarely use the brake pedal. Love that. Tows 11,000 lbs.! (I move my backhoe with it. It doesn't feel like I'm towing.). Luxury interior, beautiful lighting. Quality sound system. Video surveillance (on always). Heats up the cabin, steering, and seats instantly on cold days, pre-warms remotely if I remember to. Seat coolers. Automatic wipers. Automatic high beam control. Excellent near miss audible and vibration alarms. No pit stops, as it charges in my garage (kept at 70%, always plugged in when not driving). Range is plenty for me, even towing 5,000 lbs. Tent, inflatable mattress, diesel heater for emergency camping fits in gear tunnel and deploys in the bed. Electric outlets, charging ports galore even for rear seating. Gets a lot of attention and friendly questions. Ridiculous acceleration. Phone as key (iPhone works perfectly). Remote unlock. Frunk! How did people transport groceries before that? Electric tonneau. Wonderful software. ALEXA! I love that girl. (She's all over my house too, my copilot and nav expert.) It LEVELS itself for camping! Pet mode A/C. Rise, kneel as desired. 4WD controlled by computer at thousands of traction corrections per second. Total moon roof. Excellent tie downs. Onboard compressor. Emergency first aid kit. Recharging flashlight. Bluetooth camping speaker (awesome sound). Outstanding situational diagnostics. I could just go on and on. Until it's repair cost eclipses the replacement cost, it's a keeper (for us). BTW, I'm 68 years old, have owned dozens of cars and trucks, and the last car I truly loved as much was my (used) 1959 Austin-Heally 100-6. (I would not love that car today. Common sense increases with age.) I will also add that (like most complex toys) the Rivian takes a serious investment of attention to be fully appreciated. The more you learn the more you love. It still delights me when I learn a new feature about it.

 

[Andystroh]

Not much to add except they charged me $485 to replace my battery at a mobile service last month. Slightly better than some have seen… not sure why.
This was at 3.5 years and 48k miles.

 

[Time2Roll]

I took delivery December 31st 2022. I have the original 12 volt batteries. I haven't had any issues. I was at the SC and asked them to check the 12 volt system. They told me its fine and that the car would alert me when the batteries need replacing. The fact that this guy had no warning concerns me. I charge to 70% every night in my garage. I drive approximately 100 miles per day. I think Im brutal on the batteries because I use my car to show property and leave the heating and cooling on while out of the vehicle. In not sure if the HVAC is being powered by the 12 volt or the big battery. So far so good at 50,000 miles.

Not only does the climate control draw the primary energy from the main HV battery.... during usage the DC converter is supplying 12v power to run control systems and will keep the small 12v battery topped up. Your use case is actually better for the small 12v accessory battery.

 

[Ecupip]

They told me its fine and that the car would alert me when the batteries need replacing. The fact that this guy had no warning concerns me.

It’s possible Rivian tried reaching them. I’ve never personally seen a 12V warning, but I did receive a proactive call letting me know my 12V battery was getting weak.

It’s hard to know whether someone didn’t receive a call because of a spam blocker, outdated contact information, or if they’d never visited service and didn’t have a number on file. There are a lot of variables.

That said, no other car company has ever called me to warn me about something before it failed. To me, that level of proactive support is a huge win in Rivian’s favor.

 

[AdventureTravel]

I've said a dozen times over the last 3 months after getting my 2025 R1T...the 12v will die, they put tiny tiny 12v in these. They discharge and charge a dozen times a day. No battery this size can take that for long.

But I'm used to it. My Tesla X ate a battery EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Your Options
1. Replace it yourself each year...its not hard and the battery is like 100 bucks.
2. Replace with an Ohmu sodium. Should last 3-4 years.
3. Do nothing and pay for Rivian mobile to replace every year. You can proactively do it..think of like oil changes for your ICE.
4. I added a 2nd battery to my R1T...because if it needs service I can easy disconnect it so they never know.
5. Sell it, and wait until Rivian moves to a lithium 16v like Tesla eventually did.

I added a second deep cycle lithium battery in the spare wheel area. Rivian replaced my 12v a few months ago proactively and never said anything, I always just leave the second battery connected.
I think this may be a good idea for anyone who is worried about the 12v battery.

 

[Zorg]

I thought that 22 R1T had 2 12v batteries. On our EV they usually die every 3 years.

 

[Jonger1150]

Will the day ever come where EVs won't need 12V batteries?

 

[mkhuffman]

Will the day ever come where EVs won't need 12V batteries?

The Cybertruck has a 48V battery. Tesla has been pushing the automobile industry to follow, and the reasons are very compelling. They copied Tesla's glass roof, which I don't like, so maybe they will eventually follow into the 48V world. It is a big shift for the industry due to so many things running on 12V.

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