R2 vs Model Y 70-MPH Highway Range Test (by Out of Spec)

[TexasBob]

You can read your own screenshot, from the internet by the way.

It tells you that 1 gallon of gas is equal to 33.7 kWh. You divide the 96 MPGe by that 33.7 value and it equates to 2.848 m/kWh.

Again, I am asking what am I missing?

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fuel-economy-and-ev-range-testing

"Note: MPGe values provided by EPA include charging losses. Charging a PEV is not 100% efficient. A small amount of energy is lost through energy conversion and heat. MPGe values assume level 2, alternating current (AC) charging and account for losses from the charging cable (also called the electric vehicle supply equipment or EVSE) and the on-board vehicle charger. This moves the measurement from the vehicle to the outlet in the wall to better represent how much users would pay to refuel their car. "

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[mroe]

Y/w just us idiots in the back

Idiots in the back unite!

Again, I am asking what am I missing?

You are missing the fact that EPA MPGe includes charging losses and EPA range does not. See my long explanation above.

 

[sparked]

the EPA highway only rating is 301 and yes the R2 massively undershoots it.

Is the EPA highway rating even useful to us at all for those of us trying to understand real world use? Google says they test it at 48mph for highway. So that might be why the highway range is so absurdly high near 300 miles?

 

[SANZC02]

The reference to 96 MPGe (or any EPA MPGe value in my opinion) is not helpful as a comparative datapoint here. It's measuring something else. EPA MPGe as a measurement includes charging loses (see italicized emphasis in the definition here: https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fuel-economy-and-ev-range-testing). The EPA range number on the other hand does not include charging loses and its equivalent efficiency is analogous to what electric car reported efficiency measures — how much energy the battery used for a given distance (not also how much energy was consumed to put into the battery).

You can see this difference pretty clearly by looking at the values published by the EPA and calculating its equivalent efficiency.

The EPA provides the following values for the R2 21" spec:
- 105 MPGe combined
- 114 MPGe city
- 96 MPGe highway
- 330 miles total range

These values correspond to the following efficiency:
- 105 MPGe combined = 3.12 mi/kWh
- 115 MPGe city = 3.38 mi/kWh
- 96 MPGe highway = 2.85 mi/KWh
- 330 miles total range = 3.75 mi/kWh (assuming 88 kWh usable battery)

The EPA range number that Rivian advertises has a calculated efficiency that is significantly above the most efficient MPGe equivalent — and way above the results of the Out of Spec test.

Using the metrics provided by the EPA, you can back into what they calculate as the charging loss based on the difference in these numbers. The difference of 3.75 mi/kWh and 3.12 mi/kWh suggests 83% charging efficiency according to the EPA where 17% of energy is lost during charging.

So if we apply that correct to the highway MPGe number you get 3.42 mi/kWh or 300.96 miles of range. The out of spec results suggest that the R2 is getting nowhere near that.

I think there are some assumptions during a drive that you are going to recapture some energy as well using regen.

We tested a 70 mile round trip yesterday, real world, some traffic, some lights and stop signs, about 60 miles was highway and ended up with 3.32 m/kWh.

I do not use the range numbers on the stickers, I use the MPGe values when I’m doing my comparisons.

 

[iamnid]

I think OOS needs to refine their testing procedures though, they're relying on speed, odometer, and power meters in the cars, and only running in one direction. They need to use GPS, the same routes, the same time of day and conditions, measure the energy they're putting into the car, and run the same route out and back averaging the two directions.

They didn't run in just one direction. They explain that they loop in the video. Additionally, Jose posted this about the test:

Additionally, as far as "same time of day and conditions" -- they ran the R2 and the Model Y at the same time, in the same conditions.

No test is going to be perfect and they're doing this for fun and as a general yardstick as opposed to performing a scientific experiment in a lab.

 

[MXA121]

So not only did Out of Spec use the wrong EPA mileage for a Highway specific test, they also ignored charging losses. This leads to "Disappointment" headlines when people go in with unrealistic expectations.

 

[TexasBob]

Mental gymnastics. Not worth the effort. My R1T also achieves highway MPGe to the number. You guys can rationalize it however you want. We KNOW that the R2 on the highway gets 2.8 mi/kwh which correlates directly to the EPA MPGe rating. It's there for our benefit. Same as when you buy a gas car, the advertised MPG should be what it gets.

What you have discovered is that the R1T also undershoots its EPA highway numbers.

Is the EPA highway rating even useful to us at all for those of us trying to understand real world use? Google says they test it at 48mph for highway. So that might be why the highway range is so absurdly high near 300 miles?

The EPA testing works like this:
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fuel-economy-and-ev-range-testing
"Although the regulations allow some optional approaches, the most common approach is to use a factor of 0.7 to adjust all the test parameters, including range. For example: An EV achieves 200 miles on the highway laboratory test. Real-world highway driving range → 200 x 0.7 = 140 miles to account for aggressive driving and HVAC use."

However the "optional approach" is a multi speed test (aka 5 cycle test) which is what Rivian uses.

Also of note, top speed in the highway test is 80mph.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml

 

[mroe]

What you have discovered is that the R1T also undershoots its EPA highway numbers.

Exactly. My R1T lifetime efficiency is similar to EPA MPGe when I *do not* account for charging losses.

 

[Acehigh1]

My reservation for the R2 is coming up in a few months, but I am very concerned after watching the efficiency testing comparing the Performance Launch R2 and the Tesla Model Y Performance. The R2 has an EPA Range rating of 330 miles, and the Tesla Y Performance has an EPA Range rating of 306 miles. The R2 only went 253 miles on a full charge, while the Tesla garnered over 315 miles! Terrible - the R2's range was terrible.

Those of you with R2s already - are you seeing mileage #s much different than the results mentioned above?

 

[Dark-Fx]

You should probably just keep your brand new model Y

 

[MXA121]

You've got 11 pages to catch up on.
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...-mph-highway-range-test-by-out-of-spec.61979/

 

[TexasBob]

One other point on this: Edmunds does a real-world test that tries to simulate an EPA city/Highway test cycle. It has tested 140 vehicles (you can download the full data set). Rivian tends to significantly undershoot (not as bad as lucid). Why? Partly because they use the 5 cycle as consciously optimize to the test. Partly because manufacturers are allowed to fudge the data and decrease their range if they want to do so (to make customers happier that they overdeliver). No prizes for guess which OEMs systematically underpromise. (To save you looking it up, the 2026 Model Y was 293 miles on a 306 EPA so it underperformed.)

 

[Acehigh1]

The video link would not print out. I will try again, and if it erases again, just go to

Out of Spec Reviews on Youtube and Title is :

Rivian R2 vs Tesla Model Y 70-MPH Highway Range Test! How Is This Even Possible?

My reservation for the R2 is coming up in a few months, but I am very concerned after watching the efficiency testing comparing the Performance Launch R2 and the Tesla Model Y Performance. The R2 has an EPA Range rating of 330 miles, and the Tesla Y Performance has an EPA Range rating of 306 miles. The R2 only went 253 miles on a full charge, while the Tesla garnered over 315 miles! Terrible - the R2's range was terrible.

Those of you with R2s already - are you seeing mileage #s much different than the results mentioned above?

 

[Jeremy3292]

Even if we want to use the 303 miles EPA highway rating, R2 is still ~20% off that number. Model Y P exceeded the combined rating itself. Rivian is doing what Tesla used to do and game the EPA numbers bc the tests are ridiculously dumb and need revision. Nothing Out of Spec or anyone else did is unfair nor misleading. We can quibble about it, but the truth is the truth.

For me, I'll still be buying an R2 once coastal cloud becomes available shortly

 

[Apprunner]

Even if we want to use the 303 miles EPA highway rating, R2 is still ~20% off that number. Model Y P exceeded the combined rating itself. Rivian is doing what Tesla used to do and game the EPA numbers bc the tests are ridiculously dumb and need revision. Nothing Out of Spec or anyone else did is unfair nor misleading. We can quibble about it, but the truth is the truth.

For me, I'll still be buying an R2 once coastal cloud becomes available shortly

Its not like the test was done in isolation. They actually used a Model Y Performance as a baseline. R2 is most likely a 200-250 mile road tripper...simple as that. At least they keep a top buffer so it maintains that mileage even after a few years.

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