2027 R2 Performance vs. 2026 Model Y Performance - highway efficiency test (Out of Spec comparison)

[Apprunner]

When we got our '23 Model Y, the rated range was 330 and the day I picked it up I extrapolated 228 so figured close enough. A few weeks later, the EPA told them they would need to recalculate and Tesla dropped the range to 308 overnight. Now after 42k miles it shows 229 at 80% or extrapolates to 286 for 100%. Still works fine for our needs but not what we bought at the time so there's that...

Teslas in the US have high degradation due to the NCA batteries they are using. I think Rivian uses NCMA which is more stable.

Sponsored

 

[s4wrxttcs]

One of the things I really liked about my R1T is that for the most part I could get rated range on a road trip if I really wanted to.

Sure the rated range was always a bit optimistic, but it was achievable. Where I could never achieve rated range with my prior Tesla Model 3P as they rated it for tires that didn't even come on it.

Now It looks like I won't be able to achieve it with R2. :-(

For my use case efficiency itself doesn't matter as much as the the total range. My minimum is really 220 miles using less than 80% or so of the pack.

That specific range is important to me as I don't want to pay for L3 charging, and I do that journey 2 or 4 times a month where the large pack R1T does it just fine. When I say just I mean its doable but I could always use a bit more range. If I go alone I typically don't have any issue with my bladder so no need to stop to pee.

If I have to charge along the way then so maybe other vehicles became viable. For example I ruled out a Camper Version of the Buzz ID due to lack of range. I still like the idea of a Buzz ID despite the lack of any kind of offroad capability.

I sold it due to not being able to utilize it as much as I wanted, and that at the end of the day I just don't like Diesel or ICE vehicles.

 

[thrillseeker1234]

When we got our '23 Model Y, the rated range was 330 and the day I picked it up I extrapolated 228 so figured close enough. A few weeks later, the EPA told them they would need to recalculate and Tesla dropped the range to 308 overnight. Now after 42k miles it shows 229 at 80% or extrapolates to 286 for 100%. Still works fine for our needs but not what we bought at the time so there's that...

yea..I was getting about 200 miles for 80% with my previous 2021 Model Y (there's been battery degradation), so my mi/kwh number should be very close to yours. Tesla just massively overstates their number vs the real world usage.

 

[rvnxyz001]

The 2 test methods exist for a reason. Some car companies don't want to waste cost on extra prototypes for the 5 cycle test. Usually, every car tested in the 2 cycle test scores more real world because its an average oof only 2 cycles. With the 5 cycle it will always be equal or less as it's a true indication of actual range. Companies pick the 5 cycle to have a higher rated range, and the 2 cycle gives you a higher actual range. All cars should be forced to use 2 cycle.

The R2 would probably be rated at 275 with 21's and 235 with 20's on a 2 cycle and now you see the problem..

Where did the 275 and 235 mile numbers come from? Rivian’s filing shows raw city/highway results of roughly 487/411 miles for the 21s and 479/392 for the 20-inch ATs. Using the standard 30% EPA reduction gives about 317 miles and 308 miles, not 275 and 235.

Rivian did use the five-cycle method, and that helped the 21-inch version get rated at 330 instead of roughly 317. But it barely changed the 20-inch result, which ended up at 307, almost exactly what the basic formula gives...

 

[PaganRites]

Nope. Not watching anything with Kyle. Dude is insufferable to watch. He's also reportedly butt hurt Rivian didn't prioritize him on R2 deliveries so he cancelled his res.

Lastly this is my non news. An egg beats a brick. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

[savethemanual]

"Lastly this is my non news. An egg beats a brick. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone."

Yup, exactly. The issue was that both vehicles had the same EPA efficiency rating so that needed to get flushed out to show how messed up that system is.

 

[Tejkalra]

If looking for efficiency go lucid. You get some you loose some. I love model y so do I live my rivian R1t. Rivian says 403 miles of range, I get like 280 or may be less when driving on highway going 80. But it solves the purpose and I am comfortable. So which one is better depends on perspective. Yes, it is a lie that rivian is more efficient then model Y. But do I care?

 

[shandering]

Teslas in the US have high degradation due to the NCA batteries they are using. I think Rivian uses NCMA which is more stable.

No. Tesla uses NCMA

Rivian uses a top buffer and eats away at it to hide degradation. Your battery is still dying

Tesla does not

Legacy manufacturers also use a top buffer and eat away at it. One reason they have to do it is they don't sell brand new cars. They sit on the lots for month after month until they are sold. You can buy a car that's 2 or 3 years old with no miles on it.

if you buy one of those you could have 10% degradation fresh off the lot. Tesla doesn't have this problem because they can sell a car with a minor discount, and if it doesn't sell it becomes a demo or loaner vehicle

 

[Apprunner]

No. Tesla uses NCMA

Rivian uses a top buffer and eats away at it to hide degradation. Your battery is still dying

Tesla does not

Legacy manufacturers also use a top buffer and eat away at it. One reason they have to do it is they don't sell brand new cars. They sit on the lots for month after month until they are sold. You can buy a car that's 2 or 3 years old with no miles on it.

if you buy one of those you could have 10% degradation fresh off the lot. Tesla doesn't have this problem because they can sell a car with a minor discount, and if it doesn't sell it becomes a demo or loaner vehicle

The only NCMA that is used are the 4680 in Cybertrucks and the new MYP with the battery from Kansas. The vast majority are NCA from the Nevada plant.

 

[rvnxyz001]

I looked at the actual numbers and RJ's statement really does not hold up.

His exact wording was that the R2 is "as efficient on a Wh per mile or miles per Wh basis despite the capabilities it has." He never said whether he meant the Model Y RWD, AWD or Performance. The only comparison that makes this look true is the EPA label, where the R2 Performance and Model Y Performance both got the same rounded 105 MPGe combined rating.

But when those same Performance models were tested together, the R2 used 18 to 26 percent more energy at every highway speed. It also used about 19 percent more energy during the city loop. That is simply not the same efficiency.

The R2 has a slightly larger battery, 86.8 kWh compared with about 84 kWh in the Tesla, but that small difference is nowhere near enough to make up for the extra consumption.

Using the measured results, the R2 would go roughly 265 miles at 70 mph and around 215 miles at 80 mph. The Model Y Performance would be closer to 305 miles at 70 mph and 260 miles at 80 mph. So even with the larger battery, the R2 could still go around 40 to 50 fewer miles on a highway trip.

The difference in the city would probably be smaller, but the test still suggests less city range for the R2 too. Its battery is only around 3 percent larger, while it used about 19 percent more energy on that loop.

That is very different from the impression created by the 330 mile EPA rating and RJ saying the R2 is equally efficient on a Wh per mile basis. He could have just said that the R2 Performance got the same rounded EPA rating as the Model Y Performance. Instead he made it sound like both cars actually use the same amount of energy, and they clearly do not.

 

[cwq93r]

No. Tesla uses NCMA

Rivian uses a top buffer and eats away at it to hide degradation. Your battery is still dying

Tesla does not

Legacy manufacturers also use a top buffer and eat away at it. One reason they have to do it is they don't sell brand new cars. They sit on the lots for month after month until they are sold. You can buy a car that's 2 or 3 years old with no miles on it.

if you buy one of those you could have 10% degradation fresh off the lot. Tesla doesn't have this problem because they can sell a car with a minor discount, and if it doesn't sell it becomes a demo or loaner vehicle

Are you saying Tesla batteries do not have a buffer?

 

[shandering]

Are you saying Tesla batteries do not have a buffer?

Correct. Bottom buffer only

There is no reason to have a top buffer if you can sell relatively fresh vehicle with fresh battery packs. For example rivian stockpiled batteries to get ahead of tariffs. Tesla does not need to do that. Everything about your car is relatively new when you get it

model Y probably starts off with more range than an R2 but then after R2 stays more level (tesla loses some from not having top buffer) and then they are similar in the end

 

[shandering]

The only NCMA that is used are the 4680 in Cybertrucks and the new MYP with the battery from Kansas. The vast majority are NCA from the Nevada plant.

Tesla uses NCMA batteries that come from china

After the tax incentive ended I'm pretty sure tesla is back to using chinese batteries. They were using chinese for non tax incentive cars

 

[Apprunner]

Tesla uses NCMA batteries that come from china

After the tax incentive ended I'm pretty sure tesla is back to using chinese batteries. They were using chinese for non tax incentive cars

Nope. Not in the US. Again, all US Model 3s and Ys are using Panasonic NCA batteries. I have followed the degradation thread on the Tesla forums for 7 years and there are hundreds of pages that talk about the NCA batteries and how crappy the new ones are for degradation. Over time, they’ve reduced the cobalt ratio and it’s caused degradation issues compared to other battery makes.

a simple AI search for the primary battery chemistry in the US for Tesla cars will answer all your questions.

 

[shandering]

Nope. Not in the US. Again, all US Model 3s and Ys are using Panasonic NCA batteries. I have followed the degradation thread on the Tesla forums for 7 years and there are hundreds of pages that talk about the NCA batteries and how crappy the new ones are for degradation. Over time, they’ve reduced the cobalt ratio and it’s caused degradation issues compared to other battery makes.

a simple AI search for the primary battery chemistry in the US for Tesla cars will answer all your questions.

Tesla used LG packs in non tax incentived cars

They do not use them in performance models (slower 0-60 time)

The chinese packs are probably cheaper which is why tesla was using them

The degradation thread is also a little skewed because in 2021 tesla has a legitimate issue where they improperly sealed the battery packs. these cars have really high degradation

Tesla never made this information public but it was first called out in a video around 2023 from some french mechanic. People denied it at the time but it is obvious now

Tesla is hoping most of the cars will outlast their warranty

Sponsored