20" Inch DO NOT BUY Pirelli Scorpion XTM Elect: Major Hydroplaning Issues After 2,600 Miles

[beeglowbot]

These are two different tires. I have never had problems with the OEM scorpions and water like I did these XTMs.

the other guy has the OE scorpions, I just got the XTM AT Elects swapped in on my 22s cause the OE all seasons are already on their way out (won't make another 6 months).

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[starbux]

the other guy has the OE scorpions, I just got the XTM AT Elects swapped in on my 22s cause the OE all seasons are already on their way out (won't make another 6 months).

I am not sure how I accidently quoted you. My bad. My reply was to him.

 

[beeglowbot]

I am not sure how I accidently quoted you. My bad. My reply was to him.

the multi quote system on this forum is a bit weird haha, I almost misquoted replying to you too

 

[MookieMV]

I have the Pirelli 20" All-Terrain from Rivian and they are VERY noisy compared to the 21" highway tires it originally came with.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I have the Pirelli 20" All-Terrain from Rivian and they are VERY noisy compared to the 21" highway tires it originally came with.

All ATs are noisy, compared to AS. Some more than others. Inherent nature of tires with larger gaps between tread block—the same gaps that provide bite off pavement. MTs are even noisier. Absent din of ICE, this noise is heard more. And just about all tires can hydroplane if water is deep enough and vehicle speed is faster than tread’s ability to displace. However, doing so at OP’s stated 40 mph is not acceptable performance. All tire manufacturers make good and bad products. Also not a new development. Compared to other brands though, Pirelli is relatively new to making/designing ATs.

 

[sdemeester]

I am really struggling with the physics on this one. Wider tires are more likely to hydroplane than thinner ones, but if you have the same size tire then it comes down to tread depth and pattern. A new set of the Scorpion XTMs should have massive tread depth, and those AT tires are designed to spew mud and water out the side, and thus should be fantastic for avoiding hydroplaning. As long as rubber is on the road then hydroplaning shouldn't occur, so I don't think the type of rubber (soft, hard ect) should matter. On top of that, Pirelli makes all the tires for F1, and they run in the rain at high speeds, so I imagine Pirelli knows a thing or two about avoiding hydroplaning. Maybe someone can help me out, but I have to believe it is something other than the tires here.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I am really struggling with the physics on this one. Wider tires are more likely to hydroplane than thinner ones, but if you have the same size tire then it comes down to tread depth and pattern. A new set of the Scorpion XTMs should have massive tread depth, and those AT tires are designed to spew mud and water out the side, and thus should be fantastic for avoiding hydroplaning. As long as rubber is on the road then hydroplaning shouldn't occur, so I don't think the type of rubber (soft, hard ect) should matter. On top of that, Pirelli makes all the tires for F1, and they run in the rain at high speeds, so I imagine Pirelli knows a thing or two about avoiding hydroplaning. Maybe someone can help me out, but I have to believe it is something other than the tires here.

Agree with most except the F1 bit. That’s a contractual/business deal, not because they proved to be better than any other tire manufacturer. This is more about tread design and other [lesser] factors; like depth of water, angle of approach, throttle input, weight of vehicle.

 

[beeglowbot]

Agree with all except the F1 bit. That’s a contractual/business deal, not because they proved to be better than any other tire manufacturer.

that's not really his point though. however they got the contract, his point is that they still have experience making rain tires at a high level and should know how to make a tire not hydroplane

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

that's not really his point though. however they got the contract, his point is that they still have experience making rain tires at a high level and should know how to make a tire not hydroplane

Does it matter?? OP didn’t imagine hydroplaning.

 

[beeglowbot]

Does it matter?? OP didn’t imagine hydroplaning.

I wasn't debating that part lol. I'm just saying the other commenter's point was something different.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I wasn't debating that part lol. I'm just saying the other commenter's point was something different.

Just because Pirelli "has experience" doesn't preclude them from producing a sub-par product from time to time. ALL brands have capacity to do this. I've had Goodyear tires in the past that were absolute dog shit and they've been in business 127 years. Pirelli's role in F1 has no bearing in this. Unless any of you are on payroll of a manufacturer, I see no logical reason to get all evangelical and personally/emotionally attached towards any brand. OP hydroplaned at 40 mph. His vehicle is loaded heavier than average and tire pressure was 50 psi. Whatever depth the water was, the tire could not displace it fast enough to maintain contact with road surface. That's all we know.

 

[Zoidz]

I am really struggling with the physics on this one. Wider tires are more likely to hydroplane than thinner ones, but if you have the same size tire then it comes down to tread depth and pattern. A new set of the Scorpion XTMs should have massive tread depth, and those AT tires are designed to spew mud and water out the side, and thus should be fantastic for avoiding hydroplaning. As long as rubber is on the road then hydroplaning shouldn't occur, so I don't think the type of rubber (soft, hard ect) should matter. On top of that, Pirelli makes all the tires for F1, and they run in the rain at high speeds, so I imagine Pirelli knows a thing or two about avoiding hydroplaning. Maybe someone can help me out, but I have to believe it is something other than the tires here.

I too struggle to come up with any reasonable explanations as to why.

Here's one highly unlikey reason - directional tread could cause this, but I would be shocked if this was a directional tread tire.

And a totally unreasonable explanation:

 

[beeglowbot]

I too struggle to come up with any reasonable explanations as to why.

Here's one highly unlikey reason - directional tread could cause this, but I would be shocked if this was a directional tread tire.

And a totally unreasonable explanation:

here's the tread pattern

 

[beeglowbot]

Just because Pirelli "has experience" doesn't preclude them from producing a sub-par product from time to time. ALL brands have capacity to do this. I've had Goodyear tires in the past that were absolute dog shit and they've been in business 127 years. Pirelli's role in F1 has no bearing in this. Unless any of you are on payroll of a manufacturer, I see no logical reason to get all evangelical and personally/emotionally attached towards any brand. OP hydroplaned at 40 mph. His vehicle is loaded heavier than average and tire pressure was 50 psi. Whatever depth the water was, the tire could not displace it fast enough to maintain contact with road surface. That's all we know.

Oh I agree, I was merely being pedantic about the point he was making. Not to championing his argument.

 

[sdemeester]

In science we call this anecdotal evidence, and an n of 1 is not enough to suggest the tires are faulty is all I am saying, especially since I can’t make sense of the physics. Let’s see what experience others have. The reason I am concerned is that I just put them on my R1T and have 800 miles on them. I certainly don’t want to loose control hydroplaning. It is November in Mi so I have already driven through heavy rain and some snow with no issues. So I’m just trying to explore other potential explanations for what happened.

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