Can I disable all data collection from my vehicle?

[SwampNut]

Oh yeah, and so-called "privacy." Nobody defines what this means to them. There's a massive difference between government that can harm you actively tracking you, and Rivian who has little power over you. There's a huge difference between sharing my location with a bunch of friends, which I do, and being tracked by law enforcement. I think it's a misnomer to use that word when it comes to things like Rivian having your data in a database, versus someone actively looking at your location.

Also yesterday I placed my order for the 12-month "all your data" file from Rivian. Oddly they didn't have my email listed in whatever system the data privacy people use. But it's the one on my account and where I get all my service and charging emails.

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[Donald Stanfield]

If not, you're nobody, and by going out of you way to obscure yourself, you're actually making yourself more of a target. Sincerely, someone who knows things...

This is a good point and brings to mind an old Japanese saying “The nail that sticks up gets hammered”. The best way to hide in modern society is to do what everyone else is doing. Start living your life trying to hide from everyone and you might make the sort of people who have the power to actually spy on you wonder what it is you’re hiding.

 

[SwampNut]

This is a good point and brings to mind an old Japanese saying “The nail that sticks up gets hammered”. The best way to hide in modern society is to do what everyone else is doing. Start living your life trying to hide from everyone and you might make the sort of people who have the power to actually spy on you wonder what it is you’re hiding.

And this was part, but not all, of my point in saying that all of this makes you LESS secure not more.

 

[R1Thor]

Oh yeah, and so-called "privacy." Nobody defines what this means to them. There's a massive difference between government that can harm you actively tracking you, and Rivian who has little power over you. There's a huge difference between sharing my location with a bunch of friends, which I do, and being tracked by law enforcement. I think it's a misnomer to use that word when it comes to things like Rivian having your data in a database, versus someone actively looking at your location.

Also yesterday I placed my order for the 12-month "all your data" file from Rivian. Oddly they didn't have my email listed in whatever system the data privacy people use. But it's the one on my account and where I get all my service and charging emails.

Task failed...successfully??

 

[SwampNut]

I got the "full data" privacy report, and the data in it is meaningless. Unless you think that Rivian is surreptitiously collecting other data and lying about it, this is all, as I said, a complete waste of worry, FUD, and hype.

Date

VIN

End-of-Day Odometer Value (miles)

End-of-Day Battery SOC (%)

Approx. End-of-Day Latitude

Approx. End-of-Day Longitude

Average Speed (mph)

Number of Times Auto Emergency Braking Activated

# AEB Warnings

Max Longitudinal Acceleration (m/s^2)

Max State of Charge (%)

Min State of Charge (%)

Number of Times HWA Engaged

Total Energy Added Throughout Day (KWhr)

Total Energy Consumed Throughout Day (KWhr)

9/29/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19325.97​

63.3​

33.7​

-112​

42.25​

0​

0​

3.61​

76.9​

51.7​

18​

18.8​

23.9​

9/30/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

null

74.8​

33.8​

-112.2​

null

0​

0​

null

75.1​

63.4​

0​

15.3​

0​

10/1/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

null

75.5​

33.8​

-112.2​

null

0​

0​

null

75.7​

74.6​

0​

2.1​

0​

10/2/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19345.62​

66.9​

33.8​

-112.2​

34.59​

0​

0​

2.2​

76​

66.1​

0​

1​

7.8​

10/3/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19406.48​

47.6​

33.5​

-112.2​

42.37​

0​

0​

2.47​

67.1​

43.8​

18​

4.4​

27.4​

 

[Steve A.]

I got the "full data" privacy report, and the data in it is meaningless. Unless you think that Rivian is surreptitiously collecting other data and lying about it, this is all, as I said, a complete waste of worry, FUD, and hype.

Date

VIN

End-of-Day Odometer Value (miles)

End-of-Day Battery SOC (%)

Approx. End-of-Day Latitude

Approx. End-of-Day Longitude

Average Speed (mph)

Number of Times Auto Emergency Braking Activated

# AEB Warnings

Max Longitudinal Acceleration (m/s^2)

Max State of Charge (%)

Min State of Charge (%)

Number of Times HWA Engaged

Total Energy Added Throughout Day (KWhr)

Total Energy Consumed Throughout Day (KWhr)

9/29/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19325.97​

63.3​

33.7​

-112​

42.25​

0​

0​

3.61​

76.9​

51.7​

18​

18.8​

23.9​

9/30/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

null

74.8​

33.8​

-112.2​

null

0​

0​

null

75.1​

63.4​

0​

15.3​

0​

10/1/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

null

75.5​

33.8​

-112.2​

null

0​

0​

null

75.7​

74.6​

0​

2.1​

0​

10/2/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19345.62​

66.9​

33.8​

-112.2​

34.59​

0​

0​

2.2​

76​

66.1​

0​

1​

7.8​

10/3/24​

7FCTGAAA3NN010287

19406.48​

47.6​

33.5​

-112.2​

42.37​

0​

0​

2.47​

67.1​

43.8​

18​

4.4​

27.4​

Actually, best reply you've made so far. Thanks for sharing.

Unfortunately, though, disabling the privacy features via the infotationment display does NOT disable sharing your location data with Rivian per the note on page 413 of the R1S Owner's Guide which also is displayed on the Data & Privacy settings section of the infotainment display when disabling the data sharing features:

​

Your precise location will be shared with Rivian for critical safety purposes regardless of your choices for lcoation data sharing, such as SOS calls, crash investigation, and regulatory reporting. Your general location, about a 7 mi (11km) radius, will also be shared with Rivian.​

​

​

Obviously, the justification above is total BS since not every vehicle made by every manufacturer has real-time location data remote sharing capability.

So it appear the only way to truly disable your location data is to *physically* disonnect the TCM and/or cellular antenna.

My last word on the subject though is just to remind you that I never said the purpose was to protect MY private data from the government but other *bad actors* who would capitalize over the exploitation of MY private data when sold and/or stolen by/from companies. And that it's MY data to share and control.

That said, regadless of *why* I want to protect MY private data, again, at least in this country, you should not *HAVE TO* sacrifice privacy when buying ANY product; if YOU choose the company's value proposition to give them YOUR private data, then more power to you, but you should not have to make that choice if you want to opt OUT.

That said, there are some people who have a valid reason to hide their private data from governments; e.g. reporters, activists, etc. and they too should also not have to opt-in to buy ANY product and give up their private data.

The bottom line is would I have pre-ordered my R1S if I knew that I couldn't have opted out of private data collection? Honestly, yeah probably since it still satisfies my specific EV truck requirements (0-60 in 3s FTW!) and I still have my 2014 Ford Expedition as a privacy option if need be, BUT I will still take every step to protect my private data even if there's no *perfect* solution and we'll have to agree to disagree that it makes me *less* secure to keep my private data private.

Cheers!

 

[SSteveEV]

@Steve A. If you do disconnect the cellular feed please give us a vampire drain update. I still baselessly suspect that is a large culprit.

 

[SwampNut]

@Steve A. If you do disconnect the cellular feed please give us a vampire drain update. I still baselessly suspect that is a large culprit.

Quite unlikely. I have tested that it’s fully asleep most of the time. It also would use a tiny amount of power. I wish they’d just leave it active 24/7.

 

[SSteveEV]

Quite unlikely. I have tested that it’s fully asleep most of the time. It also would use a tiny amount of power. I wish they’d just leave it active 24/7.

Hmm quest for the 12v culprit continues then. I'd turn it off anyways just with the hopes that it wakes up the brains (and this HVAC) less if it can't call home.

 

[crashmtb]

hold up, OP is worried about "privacy" but asks probably the worst LLM of the bunch about OBDII?

 

[Kaiju]

Lots of conversation hinting at people being paranoid about privacy and bad actors and not one mention of the OnStar scandal with GM vehicles?

Even if you only characterize corporations as amorally indifferent, abusing data is not a theoretical boogeyman. Automakers are notorious for it. OnStar in particular sold customer driver data to, amongst other entities, a few insurers who then used that data to hike people's insurance rates as they were able to get or tease out data like sudden braking events and tendency for speeding. GPS data also allows those sorts to figure out if you drive in what they judge to be higher risk areas. All of that was tied to a particular vehicle or owner. The thing about OnStar was that people...just gave that away.

Most people affected by it probably never even knew their insurance rates went up because someone was tracking them and were allowed to through a TOS they didn't read. That data posted right there would allow any insurer to do much the same thing because the VIN isn't anonymous.

People who don't even neccessarily care about being exploited for money by corporate entities like that should be at least a little cognisant of security lapses letting data fall into the hands of scammers and other criminal sorts too. The data posted probably isn't all that Rivian has because it does say in the TOS they do track and share precise GPS location, the question is how and where it's stored. It's not always about big brother watching you, but I respect that people care about whether or not they make it easy.

 

[SwampNut]

Most people affected by it probably never even knew their insurance rates went up because someone was tracking them and were allowed to

Right, that right there is the bad part. If they knew their own actions caused it, by being unsafe drivers, they might stop driving like that. Like how Tesla shows you exactly how your various driving behaviors affect your rate.

 

[Kaiju]

Right, that right there is the bad part. If they knew their own actions caused it, by being unsafe drivers, they might stop driving like that. Like how Tesla shows you exactly how your various driving behaviors affect your rate.

Ah, you're a far more optimistic person than I am. From what I remember of the articles I read on the subject, services that promote recording driving behavior for the benefit of insurance mysteriously result in higher than average rates. I would somewhat cynically presume that's because nobody is perfect, or even necessarily as good as they think they are, and the insurance will very gladly use any fault to justify a higher risk category for a person in specific against an ocean of other drivers for which they can only take note of reported accidents and speeding tickets.

Would people drive better if there was a little counter ticking up dollars on the infotainment display every time they drove above a posted speed limit? Maybe. In some places driving the speed limit will get you shot. But the uproar over Onstar was very much that no, they definitely did not go out of their way to tell anyone what they were doing and I don't expect any corporation would ever be open or up-front about that, especially if it was one like ABRP that is a step or two removed from the actual customers and doesn't have to give a shit about it.

 

[Davethadog]

Well based solely on the data rivianroamer is able to get through the API it’s clear Rivian isn’t giving you all the data.

Now that everyone has gotten their turn arguing for or against big brothers righteousness can we turn the conversation back to if there’s a way to disable LTE/data collection?

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