Tesla's Dangerous Doors (electronic door latches) - Can Rivian please not follow this trend?

[portdirect]

Here’s the better question, is there any reason why electronic door locks are better? Why are manufacturers using them? As multiple people have mentioned, these door locks are becoming rather popular. If it’s just a design choice they should bring back manual. If it’s something else maybe it’s worth evaluating the trade off.

Cost. (solenoid + cable release mechanism designed for relatively small number of uses MTBF VS solenoid + mechanical release mechanism designed for a massive number of uses MTBF)

Now the cost argument seems only partially realised at present - if the front door setup on our gen2's is anything to go by - where both solutions seem to be provided pretty well (though time will tell re durability of the manual release). My wife rarely uses the button, but muscle memory takes her to use the 'emergency release' 9 times out of ten - as it's in the exact same spot as a gen1.

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[BigSkies]

Here’s the better question, is there any reason why electronic door locks are better? Why are manufacturers using them? As multiple people have mentioned, these door locks are becoming rather popular. If it’s just a design choice they should bring back manual. If it’s something else maybe it’s worth evaluating the trade off.

I've heard someone claim Tesla uses them because they're cheaper. I have trouble believing they're significantly cheaper since the backup mechanism is more complex than just a manual door latch.

I sort of see the rationale for Tesla because they use the frameless windows, and the windows move up and down slightly when the door latch is triggered. That window movement would be easier and cheaper to do with software than with a mechanical latch.

I don't see the rationale for Rivian because of the door frame.

 

[sub]

To whatever Rivian employees are reading this: Please find a way back to mechanic door latches. Some future customers will thank you.

To whatever Rivian employees are reading this, please ignore the OP. Electronic latches are better in every way. While this is just my opinion and my preference, my opinion and preference is just as valid as the OP's.

For every hypothetical situation anyone can come up with for why mechanical locks are better I can come up with 2 where it is worse. But Rivan, shouldn't listen to me either.

Unlike every person participating in this thread, including myself, Rivian most likely has real data regarding the relative safety of each option. There is no reason to think that they didn't take that into consideration.

 

[BigSkies]

To whatever Rivian employees are reading this, please ignore the OP. Electronic latches are better in every way. While this is just my opinion and my preference, my opinion and preference is just as valid as the OP's.

For every hypothetical situation anyone can come up with for why mechanical locks are better I can come up with 2 where it is worse. But Rivan, shouldn't listen to me either.

Unlike every person participating in this thread, including myself, Rivian most likely has real data regarding the relative safety of each option. There is no reason to think that they didn't take that into consideration.

What makes them better? Genuinely curious, as I haven’t heard that opinion before.

 

[srkz]

If you are in an accident and need to escape, grab it, shatter the door glass, get out.

The front windows on Rivians and Teslas and honestly most new vehicles are laminated, aka "acoustic glass". You're not going to be able to shatter them and climb out even with a glass breaking tool, at least not quickly or easily.

The rear windows are tempered and easily breakable though. At least until they decide to laminate those too.

 

[srkz]

For every hypothetical situation anyone can come up with for why mechanical locks are better I can come up with 2 where it is worse.

Do any of your reasons involve burning to death? Because I think the burning to death reasons probably weigh more than the convenience reasons.

 

[sub]

What makes them better? Genuinely curious, as I haven’t heard that opinion before.

Here are a few reasons I prefer electric latches:

A button is so much easier to use. Especially if you are injured or disabled. Pushing a button requires a lot less dexterity and strength than pulling a handle. With a button, you can unlatch the door with a single finger, even if that finger was quite mangled in a crash. You can also unlatch the door with your elbow, fist, forearm, or even your nose.

I suspect they are safer. Rivian should base their decision on data rather than gut feelings but I suspect that crashes where the electronics don't immediately fail are way more common than crashes where they do. And for as long as the power is on the electric latch is going to be much easier to escape from than mechanical latches because they are easier to use in general. And on the crashes where the power does fail, often the sheet metal is so mangled that you are not going to be opening the doors anyway, you are likely unconscious, and the windows are probably already broken. Although I don't doubt that at some point there will be a situation where a life would have been saved by having a mechanical door latch. I suspect far more lives are saved by having electronic latches.

Electric latches also make it possible to for the computer to unlatch the door. Not sure if rivian that actually takes advantage of this, but it could. It can automatically unlatch the door in the event of a collision. Automatically unlatch the door when you press the key fob button. Automatically unlatch the door as you approach the car.

The other cars I drive have electric latches so a button feels much more natural and familiar.

Electric latches have fewer parts. Not only do they cost less, they will be less likely to break, and easier to fix when they do.

Electric latches don't make noise when you lock or unlock the door.

 

[JohnB R1T]

As far as the suggestion to emulate "car wash mode", that would be a not-good solution. In Car Wash Mode, the handles do not "present" and there is not an intuitive indication that pushing on them will do anything...the only people who understand that mechanism are the ones operating the car who know how Car Wash works. The "sticking out" handle invites the pulling on it in order to open a door. This is what we want when the first Good Samaritan arrives.

 

[lefkonj]

I had a few Audis that had this before my Rivian's. They are electric but with a mechanical backup, just like the GEN2 R1S. If you can't use the button to open the door the handle will do it for you. My son still always grabs the handle out of habit.
People said the same thing about electric windows as more and more cars started to have them.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Do any of your reasons involve burning to death? Because I think the burning to death reasons probably weigh more than the convenience reasons.

Geez. If there is a fire the responding fire crew isn't going to bother retrying door handles—no matter what type you have. If they can't get the door open right away, they're ripping it open like a tin can with this. Don't fall for sensationalist journalism.

 

[ndmiller]

This is another case of feelings and emotional what if's with zero facts. Show me an actual case when this mattered.

 

[SDH]

R2 design team: PLEASE READ AND TAKE NOTE OF THIS THREAD

TY

 

[SDH]

Here are a few reasons I prefer electric latches:

A button is so much easier to use. Especially if you are injured or disabled. Pushing a button requires a lot less dexterity and strength than pulling a handle. With a button, you can unlatch the door with a single finger, even if that finger was quite mangled in a crash. You can also unlatch the door with your elbow, fist, forearm, or even your nose.

If your bodily functions are that compromised so as to need electronic handles, I suggest you shouldn't even be allowed to control a 3T vehicle.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

If your bodily functions are that compromised so as to need electronic handles, I suggest you shouldn't even be allowed to control a 3T vehicle.

So, disabled people shouldn't be allowed to drive a vehicle, or only one that weighs 3 tons? I suppose all those vans with wheelchair lifts should be banned, too?

 

[TexasBob]

This is another case of feelings and emotional what if's with zero facts. Show me an actual case when this mattered.

The OP's Bloomberg article cites numerous examples (and lawsuits) where this mattered and also quotes a source at NHTSA that says they are looking into it so it is not accurate to dismiss this as "emotional what if's with zero facts." [Aside, to my surprise I happen to know the young couple described in the story whose baby was stuck inside their Tesla for two hours.]

I think well-marked emergency cables are a good solution, but this is not just an emotional response to a hypothetical situation.

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