R1T - Gen 1 Quad Launch vs Gen 2 Standard Dual???

[KirkB66]

Been looking at the Rivian R1T. Demo drove a Gen 2 R1T Daul Performance Large last week. It was pretty sweet. But not sure I want to pay the price for the Large Batter and Performance upgrade vs the Dual Standard. The price kicks up quite a bit for those options. I have also been looking at 2022 Launch Edition Large Quads. I would love to hear from experienced owners on pros v cons of each. Thanks!

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[mpshizzle]

One thing to keep in mind - Gen 1 Large is not the same as Gen 2 Large.

You will likely get more the same, if not more range out of the Gen 1 quad than you will Gen 2 Large Dual, because the battery is so much smaller in Gen 2. IMHO if range is important to you, get Gen 1 Large or Gen 2 max.

Autonomy is another big differentiator. If that's important to you, get Gen 2. Gen 1 will likely have little to no improvements. It is what it is. Gen 2 has a much better autonomy platform. Much more stable in the lane, automatic lane changes etc. And that's just what we've seen so far. A lot more in the pipeline

 

[pickupman2022]

I had a 22 Quad large and traded it in for a 25 Dual performance large. Both are awesome trucks. Really depends on what is important to you. The quad is faster / more powerful. The 2nd gen dual seems more refined, smoother & quieter. With performance in sport mode I really don't notice much difference vs the quad on acceleration (officially 0.5 seconds). If future updates are important to you you will get more stuff with the gen 2. Some people feel the Gen 1 is better / proven. I've found the gen 2 dual to be significantly more efficient, but I almost never used conserve mode in the quad so that is probably part of the difference. A lot of people here don't seem to like the gen 2 large because it's smaller than the gen 1 large. So far I have not noticed much difference in range in all purpose. I can't personally speak to the Dual standard as I didn't consider that.

 

[KirkB66]

One thing to keep in mind - Gen 1 Large is not the same as Gen 2 Large.

You will likely get more the same, if not more range out of the Gen 1 quad than you will Gen 2 Large Dual, because the battery is so much smaller in Gen 2. IMHO if range is important to you, get Gen 1 Large or Gen 2 max.

Autonomy is another big differentiator. If that's important to you, get Gen 2. Gen 1 will likely have little to no improvements. It is what it is. Gen 2 has a much better autonomy platform. Much more stable in the lane, automatic lane changes etc. And that's just what we've seen so far. A lot more in the pipeline

Mpshizzle,
Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. There are obviously augments for both. Just trying to gather as much info as possible before making a decision. Definitely not in a rush.

 

[mpshizzle]

Back when I picked up my R1S I created a thread that went pretty in depth into the differences between gen 1 and gen 2. It doesn't go into quad vs dual, but might be helpful to you.

Also keep in mind that there have been several updates to autonomy since this post, and Gen 2 is now leaps ahead of Gen 1

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/a-deep-dive-into-gen-1-vs-gen-2-differences.33267/

 

[KirkB66]

I had a 22 Quad large and traded it in for a 25 Dual performance large. Both are awesome trucks. Really depends on what is important to you. The quad is faster / more powerful. The 2nd gen dual seems more refined, smoother & quieter. With performance in sport mode I really don't notice much difference vs the quad on acceleration (officially 0.5 seconds). If future updates are important to you you will get more stuff with the gen 2. Some people feel the Gen 1 is better / proven. I've found the gen 2 dual to be significantly more efficient, but I almost never used conserve mode in the quad so that is probably part of the difference. A lot of people here don't seem to like the gen 2 large because it's smaller than the gen 1 large. So far I have not noticed much difference in range in all purpose. I can't personally speak to the Dual standard as I didn't consider that.

pickupman2022,

appreciate your input. Seems like it will be a difficult decision with pros and cons for each. And price definitely is a factor as well.

 

[pickupman2022]

pickupman2022,

appreciate your input. Seems like it will be a difficult decision with pros and cons for each. And price definitely is a factor as well.

Yep. Price is the main reason I didn’t get the Max.

 

[DayTripping]

What is important to you? What are your priorities? I was in a similar situation. I won't say I have an unlimited budget but all options were on the table. I am more of a value shopper at times looking for good bang for the buck. Having taking a big hit on resale value for my Model S Plaid I was a bit more wary of dropping a lot of money on another expensive EV.

I drove all the I could get my hands on at the store. On paper there is a half second between the QM (quad motor) and PDM (performance dual motor) on the 0-60 times. What that doesn't tell you is how much better the QM pulls from 50 mph up than the PDM. The QM also has torque vectoring which helps the handling if you like to drive it more like a sportscar. So if performance is very important, just buy the Gen 1 QM.

Gen 2 has some upgrades but do they really matter to you? They weren't enough to entice me personally have owned a few Teslas and having an idea of what real benefits I might get out of the "upgrades." The will never develop the autonomous driving to the level of Tesla and have admitted that is isn't on their road map. If you like that feature, buy a Tesla. The Gen 2 isn't even in solar system as to where Tesla is at now.

I have a later 2023 and it seems to have some updates that help with some of the earlier Gen 1 trucks. It has the new subframe. My AC/heat are also much quieter than the Gen 2 trucks. They sound like a jet turbine when the heat pump is working. In hot weather (85F+), a traditional AC is more efficient than a heat pump.

They do have the matrix headlights. That is about the only upgrade for me on the Gen 2 I'd be interested in. I have to say though the headlights on my Gen 1 are excellent. They kept the foglights which I like as they are lower than using an adaptive headlight on the Gen 2.

The build quality is very good on my 2023. I had a very TSBs done that addressed some issues and the truck is even better.

At the end of the day, a Gen 2 PDM was going to cost me at least 30k more and it wouldn't have been as quick as I wanted so a new tri motor was going to be about 50k more a new quad 60k more than what I paid for my low miles 2023. The only way to go with a 2025 is a max pax as they nerfed the size of the large to force you into buying a max pack.

So the Gen 1 platform is more of a dead end and than the Gen 2. For me, I'll keep my cost savings and wait for the Gen 3. Not enough juice in that G2 lemon for what it would cost to squeeze it in my book. Some people have to have the latest and greatest. I grew out of that phase in my life 30 years ago. The Gen 1 QM is one of the best truck I've ever driven and one of the best all around vehicles I've owned despite the minor issues I've experienced.

There is a list somewhere on all the "upgrades" of the Gen 2. Most are for Rivian's benefit moreso than the end user. Yes, there are some, but I am not sure they are as big of an upgrade as they claimed. A lot of it can be marketing speak mixed with some real improvements. You need to see what matters to you.

An example of one of the upgrades is going to an electric door release. Mine has a mechanical release. I'll take the mechanical one all day long. I've had issues on my Tesla where the electric one wouldn't work (we got hit) and had to use the emergency mechanical door release to open the doors after the accident. This definitely saved Rivian money (and Tesla) to do that.

A Gen 1 is an awesome truck. The Gen 2 might be better for some. If it were an R1S you were considering, I'd say go with the Gen 2 just for the suspension improvements alone. Not an issue with the R1T. Frequently I thought about the 50-60k I saved by going with a Gen 1 vs a Gen 2 tri or quad and appreciate that I have a heckuva a downpayment saved for a Gen 3 or I get my R2 on order and my Gen 1 QM for the price of a Gen tri.

 

[meshugy]

Worth mentioning that the earlier Gen 1s have the older dampers, air springs, and welded subframe, all of which can lead to suspension issues and noise. The late model Gen 1s (late 2023-2024) have many of the Gen 2 parts already so less likely to have these issues and should be quieter too.

 

[bfilippo]

Mostly echo what others said. I ultimately went with the Dual Standard for a few reasons.

I don’t need an insane amount of HP for any reason I can functionally imagine.

Towing capacity of 7700# vs 11000# makes no real world difference for me - I have a couple boats that weigh about 1500-2000# and even if I ever got anther camper, even the fancy EV one they’re making is “only” 6500#

I like the ability to charge to 100% consistently with the LFP battery (recognize there is some debate here but that’s what I’m rolling with).

Heat pump has been incredibly quiet for me, and ultimately a more efficient technology for me in a climate with mild summers and moderately freezing winters.

The biggest reason, and even though I have moments where the quad is a nagging appeal in my mind (because you know FOUR MOTORS lol), is simply the fact that the Gen2 has much better cameras, matrix headlights (both of which are VERY useful here in rural New England), and significantly more computing power.

While people mention how this (computational capacity) only affects the autonomy platform and if that’s not important to you, doesn’t matter - I think that misses the technology curve aspect of things. While maybe in the first <6 months of the new vehicles rolling out it’s mostly autonomy tech, the sheer potential capacity of what is basically a computer on wheels will ultimately lead to significant efficiencies, improvements, etc to drive quality and overall user experience so long as Rivian maintains a great engineering team.

And it’s a very new company and while I’m an “early” adopter relative to the general population, I’m not really looking to beta test vehicles to that extent with multiple kids to tote around.

My $0.02

 

[doit82]

Been looking at the Rivian R1T. Demo drove a Gen 2 R1T Daul Performance Large last week. It was pretty sweet. But not sure I want to pay the price for the Large Batter and Performance upgrade vs the Dual Standard. The price kicks up quite a bit for those options. I have also been looking at 2022 Launch Edition Large Quads. I would love to hear from experienced owners on pros v cons of each. Thanks!

I had a 2022 gen 1 quad large R1T and a I traded up to a 2023 gen 1 dual motor performance max pack when they were offering some very enticing lease deals. Personally i do not notice the difference in performance with the dual motor vs the quad and love having the extra range with max pack when i need it (not exactly your same scenario), but the main point is i dont think you will notice a big difference in performance between the two.

Feel free to use my referral code (below), or anyone else's above if you do end up placing an order. Good luck!

 

[KirkB66]

Mostly echo what others said. I ultimately went with the Dual Standard for a few reasons.

I don’t need an insane amount of HP for any reason I can functionally imagine.

Towing capacity of 7700# vs 11000# makes no real world difference for me - I have a couple boats that weigh about 1500-2000# and even if I ever got anther camper, even the fancy EV one they’re making is “only” 6500#

I like the ability to charge to 100% consistently with the LFP battery (recognize there is some debate here but that’s what I’m rolling with).

Heat pump has been incredibly quiet for me, and ultimately a more efficient technology for me in a climate with mild summers and moderately freezing winters.

The biggest reason, and even though I have moments where the quad is a nagging appeal in my mind (because you know FOUR MOTORS lol), is simply the fact that the Gen2 has much better cameras, matrix headlights (both of which are VERY useful here in rural New England), and significantly more computing power.

While people mention how this (computational capacity) only affects the autonomy platform and if that’s not important to you, doesn’t matter - I think that misses the technology curve aspect of things. While maybe in the first <6 months of the new vehicles rolling out it’s mostly autonomy tech, the sheer potential capacity of what is basically a computer on wheels will ultimately lead to significant efficiencies, improvements, etc to drive quality and overall user experience so long as Rivian maintains a great engineering team.

And it’s a very new company and while I’m an “early” adopter relative to the general population, I’m not really looking to beta test vehicles to that extent with multiple kids to tote around.

My $0.02

I appreciate your input. Its very helpful!

 

[KirkB66]

What is important to you? What are your priorities? I was in a similar situation. I won't say I have an unlimited budget but all options were on the table. I am more of a value shopper at times looking for good bang for the buck. Having taking a big hit on resale value for my Model S Plaid I was a bit more wary of dropping a lot of money on another expensive EV.

I drove all the I could get my hands on at the store. On paper there is a half second between the QM (quad motor) and PDM (performance dual motor) on the 0-60 times. What that doesn't tell you is how much better the QM pulls from 50 mph up than the PDM. The QM also has torque vectoring which helps the handling if you like to drive it more like a sportscar. So if performance is very important, just buy the Gen 1 QM.

Gen 2 has some upgrades but do they really matter to you? They weren't enough to entice me personally have owned a few Teslas and having an idea of what real benefits I might get out of the "upgrades." The will never develop the autonomous driving to the level of Tesla and have admitted that is isn't on their road map. If you like that feature, buy a Tesla. The Gen 2 isn't even in solar system as to where Tesla is at now.

I have a later 2023 and it seems to have some updates that help with some of the earlier Gen 1 trucks. It has the new subframe. My AC/heat are also much quieter than the Gen 2 trucks. They sound like a jet turbine when the heat pump is working. In hot weather (85F+), a traditional AC is more efficient than a heat pump.

They do have the matrix headlights. That is about the only upgrade for me on the Gen 2 I'd be interested in. I have to say though the headlights on my Gen 1 are excellent. They kept the foglights which I like as they are lower than using an adaptive headlight on the Gen 2.

The build quality is very good on my 2023. I had a very TSBs done that addressed some issues and the truck is even better.

At the end of the day, a Gen 2 PDM was going to cost me at least 30k more and it wouldn't have been as quick as I wanted so a new tri motor was going to be about 50k more a new quad 60k more than what I paid for my low miles 2023. The only way to go with a 2025 is a max pax as they nerfed the size of the large to force you into buying a max pack.

So the Gen 1 platform is more of a dead end and than the Gen 2. For me, I'll keep my cost savings and wait for the Gen 3. Not enough juice in that G2 lemon for what it would cost to squeeze it in my book. Some people have to have the latest and greatest. I grew out of that phase in my life 30 years ago. The Gen 1 QM is one of the best truck I've ever driven and one of the best all around vehicles I've owned despite the minor issues I've experienced.

There is a list somewhere on all the "upgrades" of the Gen 2. Most are for Rivian's benefit moreso than the end user. Yes, there are some, but I am not sure they are as big of an upgrade as they claimed. A lot of it can be marketing speak mixed with some real improvements. You need to see what matters to you.

An example of one of the upgrades is going to an electric door release. Mine has a mechanical release. I'll take the mechanical one all day long. I've had issues on my Tesla where the electric one wouldn't work (we got hit) and had to use the emergency mechanical door release to open the doors after the accident. This definitely saved Rivian money (and Tesla) to do that.

A Gen 1 is an awesome truck. The Gen 2 might be better for some. If it were an R1S you were considering, I'd say go with the Gen 2 just for the suspension improvements alone. Not an issue with the R1T. Frequently I thought about the 50-60k I saved by going with a Gen 1 vs a Gen 2 tri or quad and appreciate that I have a heckuva a downpayment saved for a Gen 3 or I get my R2 on order and my Gen 1 QM for the price of a Gen tri.

Hey DayTrippin,

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive write-up! It's super helpful! At this point I believe I am leaning towards the Gen 1 Quad Large due to many of the same reasons you've detailed, including such a significant price difference, and having an R2 on order. The Gen 1 seems like a heck of a deal with all the features and tech for the price. Maybe I will upgrade to a newer Gen a few years down the road or just roll with the Gen 1 and an R2.

 

[KirkB66]

Hey DayTrippin,

Thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive write-up! It's super helpful! At this point I believe I am leaning towards the Gen 1 Quad Large due to many of the same reasons you've detailed, including such a significant price difference, and having an R2 on order. The Gen 1 seems like a heck of a deal with all the features and tech for the price. Maybe I will upgrade to a newer Gen a few years down the road or just roll with the Gen 1 and an R2.

What is important to you? What are your priorities? I was in a similar situation. I won't say I have an unlimited budget but all options were on the table. I am more of a value shopper at times looking for good bang for the buck. Having taking a big hit on resale value for my Model S Plaid I was a bit more wary of dropping a lot of money on another expensive EV.

I drove all the I could get my hands on at the store. On paper there is a half second between the QM (quad motor) and PDM (performance dual motor) on the 0-60 times. What that doesn't tell you is how much better the QM pulls from 50 mph up than the PDM. The QM also has torque vectoring which helps the handling if you like to drive it more like a sportscar. So if performance is very important, just buy the Gen 1 QM.

Gen 2 has some upgrades but do they really matter to you? They weren't enough to entice me personally have owned a few Teslas and having an idea of what real benefits I might get out of the "upgrades." The will never develop the autonomous driving to the level of Tesla and have admitted that is isn't on their road map. If you like that feature, buy a Tesla. The Gen 2 isn't even in solar system as to where Tesla is at now.

I have a later 2023 and it seems to have some updates that help with some of the earlier Gen 1 trucks. It has the new subframe. My AC/heat are also much quieter than the Gen 2 trucks. They sound like a jet turbine when the heat pump is working. In hot weather (85F+), a traditional AC is more efficient than a heat pump.

They do have the matrix headlights. That is about the only upgrade for me on the Gen 2 I'd be interested in. I have to say though the headlights on my Gen 1 are excellent. They kept the foglights which I like as they are lower than using an adaptive headlight on the Gen 2.

The build quality is very good on my 2023. I had a very TSBs done that addressed some issues and the truck is even better.

At the end of the day, a Gen 2 PDM was going to cost me at least 30k more and it wouldn't have been as quick as I wanted so a new tri motor was going to be about 50k more a new quad 60k more than what I paid for my low miles 2023. The only way to go with a 2025 is a max pax as they nerfed the size of the large to force you into buying a max pack.

So the Gen 1 platform is more of a dead end and than the Gen 2. For me, I'll keep my cost savings and wait for the Gen 3. Not enough juice in that G2 lemon for what it would cost to squeeze it in my book. Some people have to have the latest and greatest. I grew out of that phase in my life 30 years ago. The Gen 1 QM is one of the best truck I've ever driven and one of the best all around vehicles I've owned despite the minor issues I've experienced.

There is a list somewhere on all the "upgrades" of the Gen 2. Most are for Rivian's benefit moreso than the end user. Yes, there are some, but I am not sure they are as big of an upgrade as they claimed. A lot of it can be marketing speak mixed with some real improvements. You need to see what matters to you.

An example of one of the upgrades is going to an electric door release. Mine has a mechanical release. I'll take the mechanical one all day long. I've had issues on my Tesla where the electric one wouldn't work (we got hit) and had to use the emergency mechanical door release to open the doors after the accident. This definitely saved Rivian money (and Tesla) to do that.

A Gen 1 is an awesome truck. The Gen 2 might be better for some. If it were an R1S you were considering, I'd say go with the Gen 2 just for the suspension improvements alone. Not an issue with the R1T. Frequently I thought about the 50-60k I saved by going with a Gen 1 vs a Gen 2 tri or quad and appreciate that I have a heckuva a downpayment saved for a Gen 3 or I get my R2 on order and my Gen 1 QM for the price of a Gen tri.

BTW - what is TSB? [ "I had a very TSBs done that addressed some issues and the truck is even better." ]

 

[doit82]

BTW - what is TSB? [ "I had a very TSBs done that addressed some issues and the truck is even better." ]

technical service bulletins?

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