CCS is Dead Man Walkin’

[Sgt Beavis]

https://electrek.co/2023/06/12/tesla-nacs-connector-gains-support-list-companies/

With these announcements, ChargePoint, EVgo, and several charger manufacturers will support NACS. Electrify Americas chargers come from two manufacturers in the list.

As far as I’m concerned, the EV Chargers ‘Standard’ War is over. CCS is dead man walkin’.

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[jjswan33]

Yes. We needed another thread on the topic.

Can we talk about anything else please?

 

[Cosmacelf]

https://electrek.co/2023/06/12/tesla-nacs-connector-gains-support-list-companies/

With these announcements, ChargePoint, EVgo, and several charger manufacturers will support NACS. Electrify Americas chargers come from two manufacturers in the list.

As far as I’m concerned, the EV Chargers ‘Standard’ War is over. CCS is dead man walkin’.

Yes, CCS1 was always tenuous in NA since it was always way behind NACS is the number of charging stalls, in reliability, and in premier locations.

CCS1 made a bunch of early bad decisions (what can you expect from a committee?). The exterior latch gave it poor physical reliability. The lack of universal plug and charge made them rely on CC readers and screens, which compounded reliability issues. Early deployments used 50 kW when Tesla was already at 120 kW.

Compounding all this was that the vast majority of EVs on the road were Teslas, meaning CCS1 had an economic mountain to climb.

If Dieselgate hadn’t happened, there would be zero viable CCS1 infrastructure. Dieselgate made is seem possible, but incentives weren’t aligned. EA just went through the motions of building out a network, it didn't seem like anyone at the top there was paying attention to an existential challenge that was before it from day one. They just assumed they would win because they had government approval. Bad hubris.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Yes. We needed another thread on the topic.

Can we talk about anything else please?

Just ignore the thread. It really isn’t that hard to do.

 

[moosetags]

I think that this thread is more appropriate than the ones about Ford and GM going NACS. Now that the manufacturers of high speed EV chargers have announced that they will go with the NACS connectors, I think that the game is about over. I just hope that quality NACS/CCS adapters become readily available.

Brian

 

[Blueassassin]

What does that make the Chadmo? every time i see one of those at the charger I'm always so surprised what even uses that now days?

 

[Taco]

What does that make the Chadmo? every time i see one of those at the charger I'm always so surprised what even uses that now days?

The leaf STILL uses it, but I believe the current gen will be the last.
While it seems odd it's been around for 10years+ and have sold good amount of units.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Yes. We needed another thread on the topic.

Can we talk about anything else please?

And yet, here you are. Not only reading it but commenting twice. I bet you even comment a third time after reading this. If not, well that’s Missing accomplished fit both of us. ?

 

[Autolycus]

I think that this thread is more appropriate than the ones about Ford and GM going NACS. Now that the manufacturers of high speed EV chargers have announced that they will go with the NACS connectors, I think that the game is about over. I just hope that quality NACS/CCS adapters become readily available.

Brian

This makes it sound like these manufacturers and networks are going exclusively to the Tesla port. That's not the case at all. ABB and others have said they will offer dual port models to their clients. Some clients will buy those instead of CCS1 only. I doubt anybody other than Tesla will be building any Tesla-only stations for a while. There are still too many other cars out there from the other manufacturers. CCS1 is also still required for any station getting NEVI funding.

I hate the idea of everybody needing an adapter, but I absolutely agree that adapters should be allowed and readily available so anybody can charge at any station.

 

[ohseedee]

It really amazes me how against this people are. This is one of the single biggest positive moves toward nation wide EV adoption. This is going to be a positive for every person on this thread. In ~2 years no one is going to be complaining about "bring back CCS!" "Save CCS!" "we need multiple standards for competition!" as every new EV has access to almost all public EV chargers making EV ownership painless. It really comes down to hate and fear of a company and it's CEO. I know seeing is believing and thankfully soon you will see and probably believe this was for the best as you navigate your EV in a couple years charging wherever you want with less wait times and less range anxiety. But until then, carry on...

 

[Grabs10]

This makes it sound like these manufacturers and networks are going exclusively to the Tesla port. That's not the case at all. ABB and others have said they will offer dual port models to their clients. Some clients will buy those instead of CCS1 only. I doubt anybody other than Tesla will be building any Tesla-only stations for a while. There are still too many other cars out there from the other manufacturers. CCS1 is also still required for any station getting NEVI funding.

I hate the idea of everybody needing an adapter, but I absolutely agree that adapters should be allowed and readily available so anybody can charge at any station.

I really question Teslas desire for NEVI funding at this point. People always say NEVI and CCS but when 80-90% of the EV’s sold will be equipped with NACS the profitability of the CCS stations will plummet as will their reliability as the NEVI funds are exhausted. It’s more of a liability at this point for Tesla and their Network to add CCS. I think there will be more revenue and profits to be made off of Ford and GM customers that will use the NACS vs equipping all the chargers with Magic Docks.

 

[CharonPDX]

Yes, CCS1 was always tenuous in NA since it was always way behind NACS is the number of charging stalls, in reliability, and in premier locations.

Except the Tesla network wasn't open to other EVs, so Tesla's lead was irrelevant until now. CCS wasn't "tenuous", it was the standard for "everyone but Tesla."

It would be like saying USB-C was tenuous, because airports/hotels/etc had Lightning charge cords everywhere, but little USB-C. Those are useless to non-Apple owners, so Lightning charge cords don't matter to other phone owners.

Now if Apple had opened up Lightning to other manufacturers in 2017, when USB-C was just getting established (yet there were plenty of USB-C devices on the market,) that would be like where we are now.

 

[Autolycus]

I really question Teslas desire for NEVI funding at this point. People always say NEVI and CCS but when 80-90% of the EV’s sold will be equipped with NACS the profitability of the CCS stations will plummet as will their reliability as the NEVI funds are exhausted. It’s more of a liability at this point for Tesla and their Network to add CCS. I think there will be more revenue and profits to be made off of Ford and GM customers that will use the NACS vs equipping all the chargers with Magic Docks.

Doesn't matter if Tesla wants NEVI funding or not. States are going to spend it, and stations are going to be built with CCS1. As for profitability, there are still going to be hundreds of thousands of CCS1-equipped vehicles on the road, and quite possibly millions, by the time CCS1 is "dead". Also, yeah, people getting NEVI funds should consider having both ports on their chargers if they can and it doesn't cost a ton more.

 

[VSG]

Now if Apple had opened up Lightning to other manufacturers in 2017, when USB-C was just getting established (yet there were plenty of USB-C devices on the market,) that would be like where we are now.

No, the analogy would be Apple opening up the mechanical spec for Lightning, but refusing to communicate to non-Apple devices over Lightning. That is what would be an analogy for what Tesla is trying to do now with "NACS" and the supercharger network. Presuming that Tesla actually does follow through and eventually open up "NACS" as a standard, which given their pattern of making promises solely to undermine competition then breaking those promise, is a big IF.

 

[Tahoe Man]

Yes, CCS1 was always tenuous in NA since it was always way behind NACS is the number of charging stalls, in reliability, and in premier locations.

CCS1 made a bunch of early bad decisions (what can you expect from a committee?). The exterior latch gave it poor physical reliability. The lack of universal plug and charge made them rely on CC readers and screens, which compounded reliability issues. Early deployments used 50 kW when Tesla was already at 120 kW.

Compounding all this was that the vast majority of EVs on the road were Teslas, meaning CCS1 had an economic mountain to climb.

If Dieselgate hadn’t happened, there would be zero viable CCS1 infrastructure. Dieselgate made is seem possible, but incentives weren’t aligned. EA just went through the motions of building out a network, it didn't seem like anyone at the top there was paying attention to an existential challenge that was before it from day one. They just assumed they would win because they had government approval. Bad hubris.

Agree.
It would be nice to see a standard placement of the vehicle charging port too.


I'm glad CCS is dying. Hopefully this removes a good portion of the "the charger crapped out so I switched to another one" post that we read.

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