The state of the CCS charging network in USA is disappointing

[2025R1S]

Completely agree.

Anyone whose done more than just driving around town knows what we're talking about.

The honeymoon period wears off quick.

The only EV I would recommend to others would be Tesla, that is because I would feel comfortable knowing that they will always be able to charge just about anywhere. Telsa did the right thing to make their charging network a closed system. The CCS model isn't going to work out in the long term IMO. Nobody makes money selling electricity, so why take the risk.

I agree with your assessment. I think it is best for the EV/car manufactures to go at it alone with DC fast charging. The reward is they can make it into a proprietary network for only their vehicles or have a consortium of such. Each maker would be free to do whatever they deem is best, either charge for free and upfront the cost with a EV purchase do the subscription thing or whatnot. I am not sure why everyone thinks fast charging has to be modeled after the gas stations an open network for all. The current CCS model is just pathetic...broken, slow or worse getting stranded in some parking lot and to compare it with gasoline which is very cheap, very easy, very convenient, very fast, having amenities, restrooms, a roof over your head and it's everywhere too really makes me think if the EV thing is worth it.

I think we have to all admit that many put on fake smiles playing musical chargers to cover up the frustrations, while trying to convince themselves their doing the early adopter thing. My road trips with the family are suppose to be fun, not stressful.

Last, paying $50K, 60, 70, 90, 100K+ for an EV adds to the frustrations.

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[Yellow Buddy]

Is anyone else massively disappointed at the glacial pace of DCFC rollouts across the USA? It is frustration after frustration out there. If the glacial pace of installations or the reliability of existing locations isn’t depressing enough; I am seeing two, new, worrying trends….

• Locations installed on parking decks with weight limits that restrict most EV’s - e.g. 5500 or 6000lb vehicle limit. So…..basically a CCS fast charger for Teslas? C’mon….
• Locations installed in areas with very small parking spaces……so basically for Chevy Bolts. It isn’t that we can’t use these locations, but I will absolutely not leave the vehicle unattended - as anyone who parks next to me will have difficult getting out of their vehicle. Wtf……

I know those two scenarios are not happening everywhere. But the same issues in 2020…and 2021 that existed - still exist today. The fact that it takes so….so…..so long to even get a DCFC online (looking at you RAN Grayling), and then when the stations even come online, we have these sort of limitations? It is ridiculous.

Then….the fricking Tesla network, its like they just rub it in our face. We had a new ‘Coming Soon’ CCS charger listed on PlugShare, no progress for weeks; then…a Tesla coming soon location is added in the next town over - and then the Tesla location is operational before the CCS fast chargers even have electricity running to them. Then to add salt to the wound? The CCS “fast chargers” are the ChargePoint 62.5kW chargers, while the Tesla Superchargers are 250kW. I’ve been watching “coming soon” CCS fast chargers on Plugshare for 10 months now…..Wtf……

In a couple days, it is going to be November 2022, and I can’t help but feel we’d be further along by now. There are massive parts of the country that remain completely off-limits for us. Meanwhile, the rate that Tesla superchargers are being installed seems to be accelerating. At the same time, Tesla is now soliciting users to vote on supercharger locations…..like they are running out of locations to add them, and they need customers to help identify the gaps. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger-voting


There are places like Traverse City, Michigan that, despite having multiple CCS chargers, have just a single functioning CCS outlet in the whole area. I am shocked we are where we are. I am running out of excuses and explanations. We’re past supply chain shortages. We’re past typical delays in permits and approvals. I don’t know what to tell my family, my friends and myself anymore. I am not talking about just the RAN; I am including Blink, Volta, EVGo, EA and everyone.

I can’t be alone with these thoughts. Is there a CCS Fast Charger support group out there for us?

As a Tesla owner…I’m in pain. I miss the reliability of the supercharging network. CCS, there isn’t anything fundamentally wrong..if it works.

I’ve found EA chargers to be the worst. Whether it’s the delivery speed or whether it’s even working. I’ve made the mistake pushing for the next EA station hoping to get 150kw or 350kw chargers, only to get 80kw out of them. Worse, I burn an average of 15 min at EA chargers due to restarts, or communication errors. Once it’s going, and if I can get the full 200kw, it’s awesome…until the station goes down.

Alternatively, I’ve grown to like the reliability of the charge points in my area. They always seem to just work. Unfortunately, they’re typically only charging at 60kw (125 split) but found the time saved from not futzing with the station makes up the speed difference.

Either way, CCS is doable…but they aren’t exactly comfortable or ready for prime time.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I could have overlooked it; but how will the IRA reduce the cost of demand charges imposed by utilities? My understanding is that in almost all scenarios (when reviewing different utility providers, different times of use during the day, etc); DCFC are not profitable to operate. Examples like the Cadillac location being an option are great to be aware of; but lets all take a moment to recognize the amount of inconvenience were setting ourselves up for - while we tell everyone else that owning an EV is great. It is great, but the fact we have to do this is ridiculous - we’re doing it because the network at our destination is unreliable at best or not functioning.



It seems other automotive companies have failed to recognize this. I’ve tried to understand why we’re seeing almost no progress in DCFC installations. All discussions and analysis repeatedly come back to the topic of demand charges. No one wants to get in the EV charging business if the cost to install is upwards of a million dollars, and the stations lose money on every kWh of electricity they sell. There is no path to profitability. The elephant in the room are the demand charges, and the inability to reduce them. At the same time, electric rates (per kW) are skyrocketing - making driving an EV as expensive as driving a gas car. The forces are working against us vs. for us (although if higher rates per kWh resulted in lower demand charges - I suppose this is a trade off I would be willing to make - only because I know it could result in more DCFC).

I am not sure if we are naive, or if the industry is naive. Did Ford and everyone expect someone would be interested in investing in a business that loses money on every transaction, so that their cars could be charged up? No one is rushing to enter the EV Charging market. Consumers are witnessing dozens of obscure, small charging companies make big promises, but fail to deliver. I am 100% convinced that we will not see progress with DCFC until automotive companies approach it like Tesla does.

I feel we gotta get more big pocketed companies to invest in charging (like GM, Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, etc), we have to find out the root cause of why demand charges cannot be reduced, we have to identify what can be done to reduce them, and then we actually have to do whatever it is to reduce them.

I’m also a Lightning owner, so I follow Ford. FWIW, Ford has decided 90% of the population lives within 20 miles of a Ford dealer. So they have asked their dealers to serve as a DCFC network. There’s a lot of details, but basically if you want to be able to sell Ford EVs, you must upgrade your dealership with a DCFC.

IMO, this is a good move by them. It doesn’t directly drive massive profit, but it helps support their portfolio. It’s also diversion of existing ad dollars as you’re a bit of a captive audience while you charge… isn’t as well play with a Lightning while your R1T tops off..

 

[2025R1S]

That is a genius idea. I have had this thought before. The dealership lots have lights on 24x7, and during business hours - restrooms.

It makes perfect sense. It isn’t perfect, but it is dual purpose, right? The dealership uses it for new vehicles, repairs and drivers get to use it as well.

 

[Zorg]

Soon to be R1T owner, and long time Tesla owner here. I wish that RJ went to Tesla and give Elon money to buy in access to the supercharger network.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

I’ve been wondering this same question for years. I can’t think of one. If it hadn’t been for diesel-gate, the pubic charging network would be even more pathetic.

I have been wondering this as well. What is the business model other than to support EV sales? EA does have investors other than VW… but what is the long term road to profitability?

btw, interesting though somewhat drawn out article on the finances of operating a charging station, and the tension between charging station operators and power companies: https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...station-gas-utilities-infrastructure-00063398

 

[Marchin_MTB]

That is a genius idea. I have had this thought before. The dealership lots have lights on 24x7, and during business hours - restrooms.

It makes perfect sense. It isn’t perfect, but it is dual purpose, right? The dealership uses it for new vehicles, repairs and drivers get to use it as well.

A good dealership will have Wi-Fi and a place to sit down and have a snack. Would Ford only make those stations available to Ford EVs?

 

[kylealden]

The network, and especially the reliability, is clearly behind Tesla. Where I am (and I think where most current deliveries are), it's not a crisis - but the pace of rollout and the reliability clearly need to improve as vehicles are delivered.

That said, I think it's easy to miss how fast this is growing. Check out fastcharger.info and keep an eye on how many stations in your area are new. I know anecdotally that probably 75% of the DCFCs I hit are less than a year old. They're rolling out fast, and it's going to get a lot faster with new incentive bucks. That's the good news.

The bad news is,

1. Permitting continues to be a huge hangup and is why we're not seeing more RAN stations at the speed we wand.
2. Reliability, notoriously for EA in particular, is indefensibly poor.
3. When I pull into a full station and have to wait, I like to tally the average age of the EVs charging/waiting. More often than not, they're all under a year old. This means if we don't grow the network fast, we're going to overwhelm our choke points very soon (where we haven't already).

 

[2025R1S]

Bingo. No offense to some. But they still have their rose colored glasses on. Fast chargers are not rolling out fast around us. We're watching locations take years around here.

As I research it more, every fast charger appears to lose money on every transaction. Unless you run a charity and like to give away money, no reason anyone is going to install a fast charger.

I have been wondering this as well. What is the business model other than to support EV sales? EA does have investors other than VW… but what is the long term road to profitability?

btw, interesting though somewhat drawn out article on the finances of operating a charging station, and the tension between charging station operators and power companies: https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...station-gas-utilities-infrastructure-00063398

 

[bhopkins]

As I research it more, every fast charger appears to lose money on every transaction. Unless you run a charity and like to give away money, no reason anyone is going to install a fast charger.

I think charging stations are going to be like the gas station model. Gas stations make very little money on the gas they sell. They make their money on selling drinks, snacks, etc.

Having done a couple of long road trips in my R1T, I can tell you that if the charger is at a location like a Kum N Go or a Casey’s and they have a nice food area, I’m going to spend some $$ there while charging. If the chargers are in a Walmart parking lot, and there’s nothing else around, I’m probably just going to go in, use the restroom, and maybe buy a bottle of water. I sort of feel obligated to buy something if I use their restroom.

Currently, I agree the EA network is somewhat of a dumpster fire but they are definitely trying and upgrading their network and their stations. I’ve see where they are putting in all new equipment at stations that have older problemattic hardware. We’re all early adapters and I’m sure when we started converting from horse and buggy to gas, there weren’t working gas stations on every corner.

 

[Ralph]

....snip

btw, interesting though somewhat drawn out article on the finances of operating a charging station, and the tension between charging station operators and power companies: https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...station-gas-utilities-infrastructure-00063398

Thank you for the link to the article. Very informative with regard to why EV infrastructure appears where it does; and does not. Permitting does not see seem to be the biggest problem.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

A good dealership will have Wi-Fi and a place to sit down and have a snack. Would Ford only make those stations available to Ford EVs?

It’ll be on the Blue Oval Network, and made public. It will require you to register with their FordPass. What wasn’t clear is who if anyone they’ll use. Fords current network is t proprietary, it’s CCS and made up of other charging companies. There may be flexibility in allowing a dealer to choose. The one by me had an Ioniq5 charging out front…

• Charging:
  • Back-of-house charging infrastructure to support sales, maintenance, and care
  • Public DC fast chargers available on Blue Oval Network (see more below)
  • 96% of the US population lives within 20 miles of a Ford dealer, 85% live within ten miles – by implementing fast chargers at dealers, it helps ensure customers always have somewhere to charge their EV, even if they don’t have their own home to do s

 

[emoore]

It’ll be on the Blue Oval Network, and made public. It will require you to register with their FordPass. What wasn’t clear is who if anyone they’ll use. Fords current network is t proprietary, it’s CCS and made up of other charging companies. There may be flexibility in allowing a dealer to choose. The one by me had an Ioniq5 charging out front…

• Charging:
  • Back-of-house charging infrastructure to support sales, maintenance, and care
  • Public DC fast chargers available on Blue Oval Network (see more below)
  • 96% of the US population lives within 20 miles of a Ford dealer, 85% live within ten miles – by implementing fast chargers at dealers, it helps ensure customers always have somewhere to charge their EV, even if they don’t have their own home to do s

While it's good to have more chargers, the thought of going to a dealership for anything let alone charging makes me want to puke. It would have to be the last resort for me to stop there.

 

[svet-am]

On multiple trips now I have seen California adding charging to existing rest areas. This is the solution to me. Even if it is solar powered level 2 it would allow people to have a saving grace between level 3 stations. The infrastructure already exists with parking lots, vending machines, picnic tables, restrooms, and trailer friendly spaces.

 

[Dark-Fx]

With my Rivian still being in at service, I'm wondering if Rivian will ever let me charge a non-Rivian on the RAN network, since I'm a Rivian owner and the reason I don't have my truck is them. Not that it matters now, since there aren't any open RAN stations within a 1000 miles of where I live....

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