R1S's are being delivered (according to Rivian customer support)

[Autolycus]

I am glad you are satisfied Rivian CS communications. It looks like you are the target audience for their messaging strategy.

Unfortunately, your spirited defense of their promises runs counter to their public statements to Wall Street.

https://eletric-vehicles.com/rivian...liveries-to-25k-vehicles-stock-dropped-13-ah/

I cannot find any "public statement to Wall Street" where they ever discussed their production estimates for 2022, until the Q4 shareholder letter and conference call, when they mentioned 25,000 vehicles. If you've got a citation of an actual public statement by Rivian, I think we'd all like to see it. An article from a random website without support doesn't count.

This is not a defense of poor comms. This is an inquiry into the truth.

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[crcole]

FWIW, that's a 250-page document that does not once mention how many vehicles they expected to produce in 2022. The closest it gets is to say they expect to be at their maximum production rate at some point in 2023.

Thank you for proving my original point that Rivian CS (unlike it's great vehicles) sucks, which forces customers that want an estimate of their delivery dates to go digging through sources like the 250 page IPO prospectus to get hints. The liberally sprinkled disclaimer statements are carefully reviewed by lawyers before hand. While to you they are evidence of transparency, to everyone else they are just stock legal disclaimers found in all such documents.

 

[Autolycus]

Thank you for proving my original point that Rivian CS (unlike it's great vehicles) sucks, which forces customers that want an estimate of their delivery dates to go digging through sources like the 250 page IPO prospectus to get hints. The liberally sprinkled disclaimer statements are carefully reviewed by lawyers before hand. While to you they are evidence of transparency, to everyone else they are just stock legal disclaimers found in all such documents.

You read an awful lot into my comment that wasn't said or intended. I'm simply disproving the notion that there has been some huge "delay" or reduction in production for 2022 that was only announced after the delivery window estimates were emailed to people last year.

 

[crcole]

I cannot find any "public statement to Wall Street" where they ever discussed their production estimates for 2022, until the Q4 shareholder letter and conference call, when they mentioned 25,000 vehicles. If you've got a citation of an actual public statement by Rivian, I think we'd all like to see it. An article from a random website without support doesn't count.

This is not a defense of poor comms. This is an inquiry into the truth.

Please click on the link in the comment to which you responded. You will see that Rivian states they will deliver 25,000, which is drop from the 40,000 that they built an expectation for. Their IPO prospectus implied they would deliver even more. A factory capacity of 150,000 per year and customer and Amazon preorders of 150,000 is a strong indication when deliveries will happen.
If you are putting your legal hat on and asking where is the proof, you won't find it. Lawyers employed by the company make sure there is nothing is said that reaches such a standard.
You are missing the point of this thread. I personally don't mind the delivery delays and even didn't mind the price hike, because I understand that delivering new technology is tough. However, CS communication is awful by deliberately keeping customers in the dark. You prove this point by showing how hard it is to find any customer directed statements about when customers will get their vehicles. This is a treat them like mushrooms strategy.

 

[mount_finkus]

I am glad you are satisfied Rivian CS communications. It looks like you are the target audience for their messaging strategy.

Unfortunately, your spirited defense of their promises runs counter to their public statements to Wall Street.

https://eletric-vehicles.com/rivian...liveries-to-25k-vehicles-stock-dropped-13-ah/

I didn’t defend anything nor state how I feel about their communication to customers, nor even of their greater communication to public shareholders, but feel free to put words in my mouth.

You seem to be of the kind that gets mad when your exact interpretations of something turns out wrong.

 

[whyasky]

I am glad you are satisfied Rivian CS communications. It looks like you are the target audience for their messaging strategy.

Unfortunately, your spirited defense of their promises runs counter to their public statements to Wall Street.

https://eletric-vehicles.com/rivian...liveries-to-25k-vehicles-stock-dropped-13-ah/

They did make statements to Wall Street in mid December during their Q3 2021 earnings report related to production estimates. At that point RJ stated that they expected to produce the then outstanding pre-orders by the end of 2023. The number was 71k. He didn't delineate the ramp up rate or estimate for 2022. There has been general confusion on this point and when the Q4 earnings were reported a few weeks ago, the estimate of 25K in 2022 was broadly seen as a miss despite no formal guide post having been set by the company.

It's seems fair to say that that rivian hoped to produce more than 25K this year, but to claim they suggested operating at plant capacity in 2022 or at anytime before end 2023 is misleading. The most aggressive interpretation could be that they hoped to exit 2023 at a production rate of 150K/yr with a hope of getting to the full 200k/yr in 2024.

Obviously, they are seeing constraints limiting actual production this year. If those ease, it's possible they still meet previous goals on the ramp rate. But it's more likely the supply chain constraints continue to limit them over the next 24 months. Either scenario should enable them to get close to the guidance RJ provided in December of 2021 that they'll produce 71K R1 vehicles by end of 2023. We'll see.

 

[crcole]

You read an awful lot into my comment that wasn't said or intended. I'm simply disproving the notion that there has been some huge "delay" or reduction in production for 2022 that was only announced after the delivery window estimates were emailed to people last year.

You are proving the notion that CS communications is opaque and lacking in content, which is why you are so easily to show absence of "proof". I don't even mind the delays. I do mind having to root through financial statements to find scraps of useful information to estimate my deliver date. You don't mind not knowing, which is perfectly fine.

 

[Autolycus]

Please click on the link in the comment to which you responded. You will see that Rivian states they will deliver 25,000, which is drop from the 40,000 that they built an expectation for. Their IPO prospectus implied they would deliver even more. A factory capacity of 150,000 per year and customer and Amazon preorders of 150,000 is a strong indication when deliveries will happen.
If you are putting your legal hat on and asking where is the proof, you won't find it. Lawyers employed by the company make sure there is nothing is said that reaches such a standard.
You are missing the point of this thread. I personally don't mind the delivery delays and even didn't mind the price hike, because I understand that delivering new technology is tough. However, CS communication is awful by deliberately keeping customers in the dark. You prove this point by showing how hard it is to find any customer directed statements about when customers will get their vehicles. This is a treat them like mushrooms strategy.

You posted a link to an unsourced article and cited it as if it was a public statement by Rivian. I have never seen the 40k number that the article mentions. Therefore I assume the author of that article either made it up entirely or misremembered something they thought they'd heard. Their IPO prospectus literally said NOTHING about how many they expected to produce in 2022. If you believe otherwise, quote the actual language. It's not on us to dig for your support. Multiple people have looked through through the S1 and supporting materials and have never found the language you're suggesting, so now it's your turn to put your money where your mouth is and actually support your own statements with "public statements to Wall Street" that were actually made by Rivian and not some random web reporter nobody has ever heard of.

Now you're also citing other numbers that absolutely incorrect. Amazon has an order for 100k EDVs, not 150k.

We have our delivery estimates. As far as I know, nothing has changed with those. Many people have even started receiving their trucks within the provided window.

EDIT: Also, stop moving your goalposts about what you're trying to prove or what point you're trying to make. You've repeatedly mentioned an announcement about significant delays as if it's a fact. There has been so such announcement. Full stop.

 

[crcole]

I didn’t defend anything nor state how I feel about their communication to customers, nor even of their greater communication to public shareholders, but feel free to put words in my mouth.

You seem to be of the kind that gets mad when your exact interpretations of something turns out wrong.

You asked for facts. You got facts. They do not reach your thresholds, which is evidence that stands up in a court of law. This is by design because it first passed a gauntlet of lawyers. However, that's not the point of the original comment, which you are desperately trying to reshape into something else.

 

[paariv]

You are proving the notion that CS communications is opaque and lacking in content, which is why you are so easily to show absence of "proof". I don't even mind the delays. I do mind having to root through financial statements to find scraps of useful information to estimate my deliver date. You don't mind not knowing, which is perfectly fine.

what is going on here? Nobody here loves Rivian’s comms. They suck.

But they also didn’t promise us a specific number of vehicles in 2022, so it’s not fair to say the 25k vehicles now projected for 2022 is below prior projections. That’s a narrow point, but that’s all we are arguing.

I am not confident my R1S will come by June, though they’ve given me that window. If I get it in July, it’ll be late! But that has nothing to do with whether Rivian had previously promised us more than 25k vehicles in 2022.

 

[mount_finkus]

You asked for facts. You got facts. They do not reach your thresholds, which is evidence that stands up in a court of law. This is by design because it first passed a gauntlet of lawyers. However, that's not the point of the original comment, which you are desperately trying to reshape into something else.

Interpret my comments however you wish, but don’t spit out here your interpretations of my actions as some fact

 

[crcole]

You posted a link to an unsourced article and cited it as if it was a public statement by Rivian. I have never seen the 40k number that the article mentions. Therefore I assume the author of that article either made it up entirely or misremembered something they thought they'd heard. Their IPO prospectus literally said NOTHING about how many they expected to produce in 2022. If you believe otherwise, quote the actual language. It's not on us to dig for your support. Multiple people have looked through through the S1 and supporting materials and have never found the language you're suggesting, so now it's your turn to put your money where your mouth is and actually support your own statements with "public statements to Wall Street" that were actually made by Rivian and not some random web reporter nobody has ever heard of.

Now you're also citing other numbers that absolutely incorrect. Amazon has an order for 100k EDVs, not 150k.

We have our delivery estimates. As far as I know, nothing has changed with those. Many people have even started receiving their trucks within the provided window.

EDIT: Also, stop moving your goalposts about what you're trying to prove or what point you're trying to make. You've repeatedly mentioned an announcement about significant delays as if it's a fact. There has been so such announcement. Full stop.

I wrote customer and Amazon pre-orders (notice the AND in between customers and Amazon). 48,340 R1T and R1S pre-orders plus 100,000 Amazon EDV pre-orders adds up to 150,000 total pre-orders. Looks like your interest is in nitpicking.
Your argument about a single unsourced article is also a nitpick. When Rivian announced what they will ship in 2022, it was a surprise to everyone. Not because of one article; but because of all arctics, just google the news for that announcement. This caused their stock too drop. You are satisfied with the vehicle delivery communication to you; excellent. I am not.

 

[crcole]

Interpret my comments however you wish, but don’t spit out here your interpretations of my actions as some fact

Spit out? That's a great tone for discussion.

 

[crcole]

what is going on here? Nobody here loves Rivian’s comms. They suck.

But they also didn’t promise us a specific number of vehicles in 2022, so it’s not fair to say the 25k vehicles now projected for 2022 is below prior projections. That’s a narrow point, but that’s all we are arguing.

I am not confident my R1S will come by June, though they’ve given me that window. If I get it in July, it’ll be late! But that has nothing to do with whether Rivian had previously promised us more than 25k vehicles in 2022.

Thank you! That's the only point I making; I don't love Rivian CS comms. it forces me to go to financial disclosures which by design are noncommittal.

 

[crcole]

You posted a link to an unsourced article and cited it as if it was a public statement by Rivian. I have never seen the 40k number that the article mentions. Therefore I assume the author of that article either made it up entirely or misremembered something they thought they'd heard. Their IPO prospectus literally said NOTHING about how many they expected to produce in 2022. If you believe otherwise, quote the actual language. It's not on us to dig for your support. Multiple people have looked through through the S1 and supporting materials and have never found the language you're suggesting, so now it's your turn to put your money where your mouth is and actually support your own statements with "public statements to Wall Street" that were actually made by Rivian and not some random web reporter nobody has ever heard of.

Now you're also citing other numbers that absolutely incorrect. Amazon has an order for 100k EDVs, not 150k.

We have our delivery estimates. As far as I know, nothing has changed with those. Many people have even started receiving their trucks within the provided window.

EDIT: Also, stop moving your goalposts about what you're trying to prove or what point you're trying to make. You've repeatedly mentioned an announcement about significant delays as if it's a fact. There has been so such announcement. Full stop.

Move the goal posts? Go read the first post. That's the only goal post in this thread. You are the one that shifted the discussion to how legally binding are the delivery estimates.

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