Who might be swayed to Ford?

Discussion in 'R1T Pickup Discussions' started by skyote, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. azjohnny

    azjohnny Well-Known Member

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    Love him or hate him Elon Musk is a disruptor and without him there would be no Tesla or EV revolution. IMO he is the Jackie Robinson of the EV car market and is paving the way for Rivian and other companies. I ignore Elons quirky personality but I do know Tesla is about 5 yrs ahead technology wise in front of the competition and that includes Rivian. One thing that I like about Tesla is the vertical integration and not having to rely on outside companies, I wish Rivian would do this
     
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  2. ElectricTrucking

    ElectricTrucking Well-Known Member

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    Your comparison to Jackie Robinson makes absolutely no sense. Referencing a race issue just never ends.
     
  3. azjohnny

    azjohnny Well-Known Member

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    Has nothing to do with race but being a trailblazer, Elon going against the established car companies with the odds against him and a very high percentage of people wanting him to fail. When Jackie Robinson was trying to get into major league baseball everybody wanted him to fail.
     
  4. Cactusone

    Cactusone Active Member

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    Who are all these people that wanted Musk to fail? I bet 95% of the people you mention the name Musk and they think perfume. Lol. Oh yeah EVERBODY didn’t want JR to fail either. Pump the brakes on the hyperbole.
     
  5. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    Pretty easy to take risks when you start with billions. Far better trailblazers than Musk, they just don’t have the resources Musk has. Give me billions, and I too could start a large company that loses money.
     
  6. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Musk did not "start with billions". His father was an engineer and his mother a nutritionist. He made his billions himself through drive and ingenuity in several business ventures. If you think you can do that, have at it.

    The stock market does not think Tesla is a failing enterprise, putting a $40+ billion market cap with it. Even the most bearish analyst pegs the company value at close to $10 billion. Even if the car company eventually fails -- and it's possible -- Space X is a strong enterprise and the battery production unit is on track. Many great technology and business innovators had failures mixed in with their successes. Henry Ford's rubber plantation venture with Harvey Firestone was a colossal failure. Thomas Edison was a spotty businessman at best.

    I can't shake the feeling that your real beef with Tesla is that you can't afford one.
     
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  7. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that is why I have a deposit on a Rivian. Cause I can't afford a Tesla. You are obviously successful without being able to put two and two together, so this article is about you.

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/
     
  8. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    #23 Hmp10, Jul 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
    I have no idea whether you really have a deposit on a Rivian or not. I do know, however, that a man who suggests Musk was given his billions when the facts can easily be ascertained with a 30-second internet search is trying to make a point on which facts have little bearing.

    You say it was "pretty easy" for Musk to take risks with his billions. Relatively few people who become billionaires put a significant part of their fortunes on the line with ventures as risky as starting a car company. Such an endeavor has one of the highest entry barriers in private enterprise and presents some of the most complex engineering and manufacturing challenges outside of the defense industry. There was nothing "easy" about what Musk attempted, and no one but a technical visionary would have done it. Whether Tesla ultimately succeeds or fails, it has already created the biggest waves in the automotive industry since Henry Ford introduced assembly lines.
     
  9. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    He started Tesla with billions. That is what we are talking about, genius.
     
  10. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    I know that. However, your comment that if someone gave you billions you, too, could start a losing enterprise suggested that the billions Musk had on hand were given to him.

    Tesla is not the only car company that bleeds capital at various stages. GM, Ford, Chrysler, Jaguar and many others do so. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Mercury brands have all bitten the dust in an effort to keep the parent companies afloat. GM is pulling out of the sedan market altogether and abandoning it to the Japanese and Europeans who somehow manage still to sell sedans with little trouble. Making good vehicles and making a profit doing it are often separate issues, unless you want to argue that a Ford F-150 pickup must be a bad vehicle because Ford has had long-term profitability challenges.
     
  11. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    You are really stretching to protect your fanboyism.
     
  12. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    You have sought every possible opportunity to trash Tesla vehicles on this forum. I just find the views of people who actually own and drive them somewhat more convincing than the views of people who get their information from the internet or are fueled by some sort of grudge against the company. If you have read my posts on Tesla on this forum, you will have seen that I think the Model X was a colossal misfire and that my next EV is not going to be a Tesla because I have found its interior accommodations inadequate for its class, and I want to sample other offerings. I also think Musk is not the best person to be running the company he built, as his skills as an innovator have not translated well to running an ongoing enterprise. Despite this, I can also give credit to Musk's taking the huge risk, in part with his own funds, of trying to bring EVs to the mass market -- something at which the established car companies had thus far failed -- and building a car that changed the automotive landscape.

    You seem to hold the simplistic view than anyone who will not join you in trashing absolutely everything about Musk and the company can be written off as a "fanboy".
     
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  13. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/t...rts-recommendation-over-reliability-problems/

    This comes from those who own and drive them.

    I have no grudge, I simply point out facts and data, and you all get your undies in a bunch.
     
  14. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    From this report you cited:

    "Owners appear to like, even love, the Model 3. It received top marks in CR’s recent owner satisfaction survey and also earned a positive road-test score. It’s a weird duality — and one the even CR acknowledges — that other aspirational, lifestyle and luxury vehicles share. Owners love the vehicles, despite persistent issues with the components inside them.
    While Teslas perform well in Consumer Reports’ road tests and have excellent owner satisfaction, their reliability has not been consistent, according to our members, which has resulted in changes to their recommended status . . . ."

    This report was issued about a year and a half after Tesla launched the Model 3. It noted that Model 3 reliability ratings were on a low par shared with such long-established brands as Range Rover, Maserati, and Alfa Romeo. Those companies have been making car for decades. Tesla is still a relatively new entrant employing novel technologies, and the Model 3 quality issues have been aggressively addressed.

    The report also contained this language:

    "In this very same survey from Consumer Reports, Model 3 was rated as the #1 most satisfying car . . . ."

    This is not very strong support for the proposition that Tesla owners do not like their cars.
     
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  15. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    I never said they don't like their cars, but my point is that being a fanboy for Tesla is pointless when they have so many problems. Tesla is riding the fanboy wave and when that ends, they will have serious issues.
     

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