BMW: EV’s are Dead, buy Hydrogen Fuel Cells Vehicles

[SANZC02]

Not sure about this news. Maybe it’s taken out of context as a lot of news sources. As BMW already is successful with their i4, i5 and i7 and the Munich plant is going to be 100% electric and if that doesn’t say they are committed to electric cars than I don’t know what does. We own two i4’s and they are easily the best EV’s we have ever owned. I prefer it over our R1T as well. And all the Tesla, Volvo, and other EV’s we have also test driven. BMW is imo ahead of most other EV companies. My opinion.
I know they have dabbled in hydrogen but are they really going to commit an entire factory to hydrogen or ?? Those articles seem vague and if anything I don’t believe bmw will be ditching electric cars.

Just curious what do you really like about the i4?

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[Bimmer100]

Just curious what do you really like about the i4?

Many things.
I love to drive the i4 more than any other EV I’ve owned. They comfort and quiet interior, dead silent motors too.
Feels faster than the R1T overall, especially at high way speeds.

the braking of the i4 is impressive and it does well in the snow with snow tires.
fwiw… we have two i4 M50’s. One is 2022 and other 2023. They have been solid with no issues other than super minor bugs. While if I compare to all other EV’s we have owned…. The i4’s are reliable. While our R1T was next level bad with tons of issues. Some posts I made on that exist, but not til recently the R1T finally has had these issues resolved but do regret buying it, as it sat parked for over half a year waiting for Rivian to address the issues and fix things like faulty frunk, dead OS where no gps, no sos, no Bluetooth, no pak, the telematics control module was dead and took countless months to get in for repair.

anyhow, back to bmw… their service in our experience has been excellent. But it’s has 90% of of its updates over the air. Only time we took them to the dealer was for a special shifter to be installed.

when going on long trips I find the charge speed to be far better on the i4 than the Rivian. But not as good as the Tesla’s we have also owned. But most of our driving is local so we charge at home. We only have three EV’s now.. two i4 m50 and one R1T quad.
But we do like the R1T after it’s been fixed… and love Rivian finally added the iOS widget the other day!!! BMW has had that since day one. And love it. My wife also strongly prefer the i4, it definitely has the nicest interior of any EV we have owned. But we also configured both with individual merino leather interiors. So my wife’s has Fiona red and black interior, and mine has ivory white merino interior and individual exterior color of twilight purple. Another thing about bmw I prefer. A choice to buy some personality for your own vehicle versus being stuck with a handful of choices for color and interior etc…

The i4 is “good” with range, especially very good if you get smaller wheels. And it’s usually very conservative on range estimates versus Tesla having overly optimistic range which often becomes a problem.

The i4 m50 I enjoy its design with the hatchback design yet still looks like a regular car. It does not look like a silly electric space ship which most EV’s do… the hatch allows for ease of loading large objects into the car with ease! The space is huge for a car like this. And far far more useable than the model 3 or model S we had in the past.
the i4 also retains most buttons and feels more at home with driver comforts. I don’t like the Tesla interiors, and everything from a screen. The i4 has a lot from its screen but still has many typical controls on the wheel or where you would expect. The i4 has excellent driver assist modes which are some of the best overall, albeit somewhat similar to Rivian however seems a bit smoother on the highway when comparing. And it’s quite smart about if one takes their eyes off road it will know immediately. It seems to work much better than Rivian and Tesla and I think too many people drive irresponsible and take advantage of these modes which could be putting themselves or others in danger. Albeit bmw does allow no hands entirely at up to 45mph approx. so nice for traffic situations. I do pay attention but nice not to have to grab the wheel ever couple seconds.

another thing… bmw has a killer heat pump that is incredibly efficient. Can heat the car insanely fast, and not waste massive energy doing so. I do wish Rivian had a heat pump. It’s crazy how much power Rivian uses to heat the truck in mornings. While the i4 is fast and efficient, the comfort is far better, kinda reminds me of driving my friends rolls Royce phantom. Similar feel anyhow. Like floating on a cloud as far is quiet interior dB levels. Yet is sporty enough to enjoy spirited driving!!

we have take our cars to the track and had some fun with them. And albeit all EV’s are heavy, the i4’s manage to disguise their weight well and they do feel more nimble than one might assume. But there is no mistake, they are EV’s. Just have potential for some fun on the track still.

I have noticed bmw i4 tends to have the best “hidden range” after hitting 0%. Many tests show them having another 20 or so miles of range beyond hitting 0% while most EV’s tend to be either dead, reduced power or maybe 5-10miles extra range beyond 0% not comforting when on long road trips but i4 has never left us in bad situation but we don’t do a ton of long distance. Long distance trips around 400miles or so. But no issues other than occasional EA charger being down.

also the ID8 OS has been great, the trip planning used to be non existent but has improved a ton. It’s typically pretty accurate and plans trips well.

also since we have ID8 I still can mod the cars features like adding custom color led lighting beyond their large list of colors… but I added a UV purple like Interior to my car. And also enabled things like “anti dazzle” which allows amazing night time lighting safety features that prevent oncoming traffic from being blinded. The hardware is there as we paid for the laser light headlights. Which btw are easily the best headlights I’ve ever used in any car of any price. They are pricy but amazing.

I could go on and on really. But short of it, the cars have been solid. And know a large group of other i4 owners which all seem quite happy with their purchase. There are some issues with the cars as some had a bad part for the cooling system that failed when car was exposed to 0C or less. So 1/4 of cars in places like Norway had been recalled. But the fix already happened. Our cars never had the bad part. We haven’t had any issue with the i4 other than a known glitch where the OS sometimes needs a reset because of a CarPlay glitch. But at least it has CarPlay!! Our R1T has the 1EV CarPlay thing which isn’t as quick and responsive as the bmw CarPlay. And the screen of the i4 is better than Rivian in clarity etc.
I do wish bmw had a better security camera system like Tesla’s sentry mode or Rivian’s gear guard. So that would be my main criticism. But otherwise most other things are a strong win.

 

[SANZC02]

Many things.
I love to drive the i4 more than any other EV I’ve owned. They comfort and quiet interior, dead silent motors too.
Feels faster than the R1T overall, especially at high way speeds.

the braking of the i4 is impressive and it does well in the snow with snow tires.
fwiw… we have two i4 M50’s. One is 2022 and other 2023. They have been solid with no issues other than super minor bugs. While if I compare to all other EV’s we have owned…. The i4’s are reliable. While our R1T was next level bad with tons of issues. Some posts I made on that exist, but not til recently the R1T finally has had these issues resolved but do regret buying it, as it sat parked for over half a year waiting for Rivian to address the issues and fix things like faulty frunk, dead OS where no gps, no sos, no Bluetooth, no pak, the telematics control module was dead and took countless months to get in for repair.

anyhow, back to bmw… their service in our experience has been excellent. But it’s has 90% of of its updates over the air. Only time we took them to the dealer was for a special shifter to be installed.

when going on long trips I find the charge speed to be far better on the i4 than the Rivian. But not as good as the Tesla’s we have also owned. But most of our driving is local so we charge at home. We only have three EV’s now.. two i4 m50 and one R1T quad.
But we do like the R1T after it’s been fixed… and love Rivian finally added the iOS widget the other day!!! BMW has had that since day one. And love it. My wife also strongly prefer the i4, it definitely has the nicest interior of any EV we have owned. But we also configured both with individual merino leather interiors. So my wife’s has Fiona red and black interior, and mine has ivory white merino interior and individual exterior color of twilight purple. Another thing about bmw I prefer. A choice to buy some personality for your own vehicle versus being stuck with a handful of choices for color and interior etc…

The i4 is “good” with range, especially very good if you get smaller wheels. And it’s usually very conservative on range estimates versus Tesla having overly optimistic range which often becomes a problem.

The i4 m50 I enjoy its design with the hatchback design yet still looks like a regular car. It does not look like a silly electric space ship which most EV’s do… the hatch allows for ease of loading large objects into the car with ease! The space is huge for a car like this. And far far more useable than the model 3 or model S we had in the past.
the i4 also retains most buttons and feels more at home with driver comforts. I don’t like the Tesla interiors, and everything from a screen. The i4 has a lot from its screen but still has many typical controls on the wheel or where you would expect. The i4 has excellent driver assist modes which are some of the best overall, albeit somewhat similar to Rivian however seems a bit smoother on the highway when comparing. And it’s quite smart about if one takes their eyes off road it will know immediately. It seems to work much better than Rivian and Tesla and I think too many people drive irresponsible and take advantage of these modes which could be putting themselves or others in danger. Albeit bmw does allow no hands entirely at up to 45mph approx. so nice for traffic situations. I do pay attention but nice not to have to grab the wheel ever couple seconds.

another thing… bmw has a killer heat pump that is incredibly efficient. Can heat the car insanely fast, and not waste massive energy doing so. I do wish Rivian had a heat pump. It’s crazy how much power Rivian uses to heat the truck in mornings. While the i4 is fast and efficient, the comfort is far better, kinda reminds me of driving my friends rolls Royce phantom. Similar feel anyhow. Like floating on a cloud as far is quiet interior dB levels. Yet is sporty enough to enjoy spirited driving!!

we have take our cars to the track and had some fun with them. And albeit all EV’s are heavy, the i4’s manage to disguise their weight well and they do feel more nimble than one might assume. But there is no mistake, they are EV’s. Just have potential for some fun on the track still.

I have noticed bmw i4 tends to have the best “hidden range” after hitting 0%. Many tests show them having another 20 or so miles of range beyond hitting 0% while most EV’s tend to be either dead, reduced power or maybe 5-10miles extra range beyond 0% not comforting when on long road trips but i4 has never left us in bad situation but we don’t do a ton of long distance. Long distance trips around 400miles or so. But no issues other than occasional EA charger being down.

also the ID8 OS has been great, the trip planning used to be non existent but has improved a ton. It’s typically pretty accurate and plans trips well.

also since we have ID8 I still can mod the cars features like adding custom color led lighting beyond their large list of colors… but I added a UV purple like Interior to my car. And also enabled things like “anti dazzle” which allows amazing night time lighting safety features that prevent oncoming traffic from being blinded. The hardware is there as we paid for the laser light headlights. Which btw are easily the best headlights I’ve ever used in any car of any price. They are pricy but amazing.

I could go on and on really. But short of it, the cars have been solid. And know a large group of other i4 owners which all seem quite happy with their purchase. There are some issues with the cars as some had a bad part for the cooling system that failed when car was exposed to 0C or less. So 1/4 of cars in places like Norway had been recalled. But the fix already happened. Our cars never had the bad part. We haven’t had any issue with the i4 other than a known glitch where the OS sometimes needs a reset because of a CarPlay glitch. But at least it has CarPlay!! Our R1T has the 1EV CarPlay thing which isn’t as quick and responsive as the bmw CarPlay. And the screen of the i4 is better than Rivian in clarity etc.
I do wish bmw had a better security camera system like Tesla’s sentry mode or Rivian’s gear guard. So that would be my main criticism. But otherwise most other things are a strong win.

Thanks for the detailed write up. Had not considered the BMW but will put it on the list when time comes to replace the Tesla Model S.

 

[Bimmer100]

Thanks for the detailed write up. Had not considered the BMW but will put it on the list when time comes to replace the Tesla Model S.

Go and take one on a test drive

fwiw, we had a model S. It was 2022 and fwiw it was sold quickly as it had a lot of problems. It was very uncomfortable as one issue and figure it is ok for taller people but I’m 5’9” and my wife is 5’4” and the seatbelt cuts our neck in the model S and had no adjustment which blew my mind… but the real issue is it got to about 10K miles and the drive shaft or something failed and make scary as hell noises when under acceleration . Also just had a lot of interior noise that was unacceptable. I did take late model plaid for a test drive and found nothing was improved. It was not that it was a bad car but just expensive for what you get imo. Only the charging network was impressive of course and the OS is snappy.

 

[SANZC02]

Go and take one on a test drive

fwiw, we had a model S. It was 2022 and fwiw it was sold quickly as it had a lot of problems. It was very uncomfortable as one issue and figure it is ok for taller people but I’m 5’9” and my wife is 5’4” and the seatbelt cuts our neck in the model S and had no adjustment which blew my mind… but the real issue is it got to about 10K miles and the drive shaft or something failed and make scary as hell noises when under acceleration . Also just had a lot of interior noise that was unacceptable. I did take late model plaid for a test drive and found nothing was improved. It was not that it was a bad car but just expensive for what you get imo. Only the charging network was impressive of course and the OS is snappy.

I have a 2016 Model S, one of the first when they changed the front end mid year, also it was when you could still get actual leather seats.

For us it has been a great car, have a little over 80k miles, still runs great. I was going to get rid of it when I got the R1S but with free super charging and having over 92% of the original range we decided to keep it and got rid of our Jeep GC. I took a 6500 mile road trip in it last month, was pretty impressed with how it handled the cold weather, coldest I saw was -8 in Gallup, New Mexico, first stretch in the really cold days range was less we would get between 350 and 400 watts a mile but after the first charge it would get back down around 290-310 watts per mile and stay there for the rest of the day.

I will probably start looking later this year, the I4 will certainly be one of the vehicles I test drive. I’m curious about what the R2 will look like and its specs as well. Really enjoying the R1S, had great luck with it, we have put 13.5K on it so far. We do not need another R1 size vehicle but if the R2 is smaller it might work.

 

[Bimmer100]

I have a 2016 Model S, one of the first when they changed the front end mid year, also it was when you could still get actual leather seats.

For us it has been a great car, have a little over 80k miles, still runs great. I was going to get rid of it when I got the R1S but with free super charging and having over 92% of the original range we decided to keep it and got rid of our Jeep GC. I took a 6500 mile road trip in it last month, was pretty impressed with how it handled the cold weather, coldest I saw was -8 in Gallup, New Mexico, first stretch in the really cold days range was less we would get between 350 and 400 watts a mile but after the first charge it would get back down around 290-310 watts per mile and stay there for the rest of the day.

I will probably start looking later this year, the I4 will certainly be one of the vehicles I test drive. I’m curious about what the R2 will look like and its specs as well. Really enjoying the R1S, had great luck with it, we have put 13.5K on it so far. We do not need another R1 size vehicle but if the R2 is smaller it might work.

awesome! I really don’t hate on Tesla. I really liked the model 3 we had. And saved my life from a terrible accident too. Tesla is Uber efficient. The i4 m50 is NOT efficient with power but it’s not awful either. If you want more efficient than edrive40 is a better choice.

but I wanted the power and the AWD. However previous bmw’s I’ve owned all were RWD.

My wife has been averaging 2.4miles a KwH. Or I guess this translates to 80.8mpg if comparing to fuel. Based on this calculator

https://www.inchcalculator.com/convert/mile-per-kilowatt-hour-to-mile-per-gallon-equivalent/


both of our i4 m50 have 20” wheels which drop efficiency massively from the 19” variants or even 18”. 227mile range with 20” vs like 270miles with 19” and probably better like 290 with 18” is my guess but not sure on this.

we don’t care much for the extra range as the 20” wheels feel nice and look great. I prefer the more firm sporty feel of the 20” with high performance tires.
But if it snows we have a spare set of factory 20” wheels with the BMW preferred star rated 20” snow tires designed for the i4, Pirelli Winter 270 Sottozero series 2. A mouthful to say… but are specific for the factory 20” wheel size and specific to the i4 m50 for snow. They are pricey and not as good as getting a set of 19” wheels with something like blizzak or something… but anyhow. We chose to keep its aesthetic all year long no matter the weather.

I believe many guys with the i4 edrive40 are getting way way more efficient mileage. I don’t recall but around 3.6-3.9m per KwH.

but if you test drive the i4 be sure you test drive three of them at least. Possibly all four if you want. But thr i4 m50 is the quick one and recommend to try. But also be very patient to wait for as they are impossible to get quickly. My wife’s took 355days and mine was 502 days! I think the wait is down to around 7-9months now. Unless you are ok paying for a unit off a lot or used model. But would recommend ordering one with the individual VIP service to choose your own interior in premium materials and individual color if pretty much anything you can imagine. Some dealers won’t ever even mention these services and sometimes seem to pretend they don’t exist… but for instance the color I chose was discounted as it was an official 50th anniversary edition with the 50th Jahre M badging… all 2022 produced M cars can get these badges as factory option. The edrive40 and edrive35 are easy to get, tons of choices in stock or near instantly available if you want, but if you want the m50…. Good luck with that

but the discount was like 3850usd if I recall. Vs paying something around 5K for the color without discount. The interior options of fine merino leather was around 4-5K if I recall. IMO worth every penny to get something special. It’s much better than the factory leather or the vegan leather. Unless you prefer vegan than there is no discussion. But I find the merino the most comfy and it’s not rubbery or grippy like that vegan leather crap. I don’t like the r1T materials or Teslas but I don’t hate it either. It just feels cheap albeit durable and all.

it’s far more comfy in the i4’s than any vegan interior. Soft merino leather is just incredible and smells great too.

Anyhow, test drive i4 m50, also must try edrive40 and the xdrive40
There is also an edrive35

worth spending a bit of time with all of them

it’s a little smaller than a model S however. But seems more functional over all. But it won’t be as efficient but probably won’t matter.

 

[Riv_Goat]

but if you test drive the i4 be sure you test drive three of them at least. Possibly all four if you want. But thr i4 m50 is the quick one and recommend to try. But also be very patient to wait for as they are impossible to get quickly. My wife’s took 355days and mine was 502 days! I think the wait is down to around 7-9months now.

We just ordered a custom eDrive40 two weeks ago and should receive it at the end of April, so only 2.5 month lead time. This will be my wife's daily driver (we'll stop sharing the R1S) and I agree with Bimmer100 that it's really nice, particularly the interior. She's coming from a Model 3 and the i4 is definitely a pretty big upgrade.

 

[user1234]

It is my understanding that hydrogen filling stations in California are closing down. And I am not sure if I would want two hydrogen tanks parking in my garage.

 

[mkhuffman]

I don't think anyone has posted this yet, and it is relevant to the conversation:

https://insideevs.com/news/708156/shell-closes-california-hydrogen-stations/

" Shell Hydrogen will permanently close all seven of its California pumping stations immediately, the company confirmed this week. It will no longer operate light-duty hydrogen stations in the U.S., and represents another blow to the struggling hydrogen car market in the only state where the fuel is widely available at all. "

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