2025.46 Update Teased: Customizable Driver Display for Gen 1 and Gen 2

[sunydrm]

Dude, you are exhausting. It is as if you know something, yet I think you really don't. Not sure why. Maybe it is due to all the half-truths passed off as 100% fact.

what half truths? Explain

you "think" I don't know something yet I am telling half truths? You either KNOW I am telling half truths or you don't.

Battery degradation is a well measured topic on the tesla forums because the cars have been around for 10+ years. We know how they degrade. We know what causes degradation.

Rivian hides their initial ~5% degradation in the buffer so that the car's range does not change after the first year of ownership.

Sponsored

 

[R1Thor]

what half truths? Explain

you "think" I don't know something yet I am telling half truths? You either KNOW I am telling half truths or you don't.

Battery degradation is a well measured topic on the tesla forums because the cars have been around for 10+ years. We know how they degrade. We know what causes degradation.

Rivian hides their initial ~5% degradation in the buffer so that the car's range does not change after the first year of ownership.

Maybe because you clearly ignored the entirety of the sources I provided you?
You cherry picked the points you thought 'won' your argument...talking about DCFC or SOC only and ignoring the fact that every one of those sources address decades of data (as you put it "Calendar Aging")

So, you can continue to live in your fear bubble. The rest of us, I suppose, will live with our terrible choices and in a decade, you're welcome back with a giant "I TOLD YOU SO" sign.

Take care now!

 

[sunydrm]

Maybe because you clearly ignored the entirety of the sources I provided you?
You cherry picked the points you thought 'won' your argument...talking about DCFC or SOC only and ignoring the fact that every one of those sources address decades of data (as you put it "Calendar Aging")

So, you can continue to live in your fear bubble. The rest of us, I suppose, will live with our terrible choices and in a decade, you're welcome back with a giant "I TOLD YOU SO" sign.

Take care now!

The source you talk about IGNORES calendar aging entirely. Jeff Dahn ignores the biggest part about battery degradation because he's paid off to not talk about it

Car manufacturers don't want consumers to know that a battery can die with 25K miles on it because that sounds ludicrous. It would turn off potential customers and you don't want to turn anyone off.

It sounds better to say that an EV battery can last 1 million miles (which in the right circumstances is true).

 

[mkhuffman]

what half truths? Explain

you "think" I don't know something yet I am telling half truths? You either KNOW I am telling half truths or you don't.

Battery degradation is a well measured topic on the tesla forums because the cars have been around for 10+ years. We know how they degrade. We know what causes degradation.

Rivian hides their initial ~5% degradation in the buffer so that the car's range does not change after the first year of ownership.

You are comparing BEVs to power tools.

Sorry, others have argued with you point by point, and I don't have the energy to do that. You can take the win if you want, but you are posting things that are generally true, but in some cases, not true. Mixed together it gets very confusing. The biggest problem is your inability to back up assertions with data. You just make a claim like it is fact when it is clearly not. How about you link to data or an article or something that provides support for all your assertions?

BTW - I agree it is true that age is a big factor for battery health. But clearly it is not the only factor. Clearly you can stress the battery and increase wear.

Anyway, you do you. I do enjoy your sometimes accurate, sometimes stupid posts. Don't let me get you down!

 

[sunydrm]

BTW - I agree it is true that age is a big factor for battery health. But clearly it is not the only factor. Clearly you can stress the battery and increase wear.

In consumer electronics (phones, powertools, etc.) batteries die from stress. Not calendar aging. It's because you have a battery only the size of its intended purpose.

Cars have 100s of miles of range and a consumer often only drives 10-15 miles round trip. Even charging to 100% daily will not stress the battery in the way you can stress a consumer electronics battery

You do see EVs dying after 1-2 years (100K miles) by using them for uber and stressing the battery like a power tool. Discharging nearly 100% and recharging as the car gets low

There's another good rule of thumb I have heard. If you need to make a 250-300 mile round trip for work, do not do it on one charge daily. Charge equally at home and at work, or do not buy an EV for this purpose

And when you are taking a road trip where you want to consumer 80+% of the battery (to not have to charge anywhere but home) you need to think about whether you really need to do it. There is only a limited number of times you can do it, and each time causes harm to the battery.

 

[norivian]

When should we expect this software?

 

[R1Thor]

The source you talk about IGNORES calendar aging entirely. Jeff Dahn ignores the biggest part about battery degradation because he's paid off to not talk about it

Car manufacturers don't want consumers to know that a battery can die with 25K miles on it because that sounds ludicrous. It would turn off potential customers and you don't want to turn anyone off.

It sounds better to say that an EV battery can last 1 million miles (which in the right circumstances is true).

I provided 3 sources.
Check the Engineering Explained sources. Jason Fenske does a PHENOMENAL and extremely thorough job between all his YT series on BEV batteries.

Engineers know things. #totallyunbiased

 

[mkhuffman]

In consumer electronics (phones, powertools, etc.) batteries die from stress. Not calendar aging. It's because you have a battery only the size of its intended purpose.

Cars have 100s of miles of range and a consumer often only drives 10-15 miles round trip. Even charging to 100% daily will not stress the battery in the way you can stress a consumer electronics battery

You do see EVs dying after 1-2 years (100K miles) by using them for uber and stressing the battery like a power tool. Discharging nearly 100% and recharging as the car gets low

What if I drive like lunatic, with WOTs at every stoplight?

I think that is why my Mach-e battery degraded faster than most. It was at 88% after three years. Just to clarify, I don't know if that was the cause, but it is the only thing that I did that was stressful on the battery. And other MME batteries of the same age did not degrade that fast. Not at all.

There is no reasonable argument that can be made IMO that putting high stress on the battery has no impact on battery health. It makes no sense, and I think most data on battery care provides prescriptions for how to reduce battery stress. For good reason.

 

[sunydrm]

I provided 3 sources.
Check the Engineering Explained sources. Jason Fenske does a PHENOMENAL and extremely thorough job between all his YT series on BEV batteries.

Engineers know things. #totallyunbiased

Engineering explained got his information from Jeff Dahn.

I think that is why my Mach-e battery degraded faster than most. It was at 88% after three years. Just to clarify, I don't know if that was the cause, but it is the only thing that I did that was stressful on the battery. And other MME batteries of the same age did not degrade that fast. Not at all.

There are two things that stress a battery. High SOC/High temp storage and high depth of discharge (which affects charging cycles).

A battery has between 150-10,000 (depending on chemistry) equivalent charging cycles to 80% degradation. This depends on SOC and depth of discharge. The higher the depth of discharge (taking long round trip commutes and/or doing uber and only charging 1x per day) causes immediate damage to your battery. That's why you don't want to do something bad to your battery when you only have 150 times you can do it before possible failure. Your car already loses 5% degradation in the first year from calendar aging.

Batteries also naturally degrade. The current mapping of all model 3s shows a ~5% degradtion the first year with a steep decrease. The average time to 80% SOH is around 15 years. Around 10 years would be arizona temps (you can see this already with dying model S and nissan leaf) and around 20 years is cold temps. Storing at 50% charge limit extends that time to some extent but temp plays a role.

Therefore as long as you charge often, your degradation comes mostly from calendar aging. That's why a low use battery dies with 25K miles on it. That's also why a high use battery (with frequent charging) can go 800K miles

 

[R1Thor]

Engineering explained got his information from Jeff Dahn.

Look, I'm admittedly a fanboi of EE. I even own one of his t-shirts. If there's one thing I can vouch for of that guy: he doesn't do single source. And he absolutely addresses the Arizona study I cited (that you're still ignoring) in this video when he talks about longevity (which apparently he can't do because of this JD guy? which one is it?):

So, whatever odd thing this Jeff Dahn guy did to steal your girl in high school grudge match you got going on is getting a little too weird for me.

I'm out.

 

[sunydrm]

Look, I'm admittedly a fanboi of EE. I even own one of his t-shirts. If there's one thing I can vouch for of that guy: he doesn't do single source. And he absolutely addresses the Arizona study I cited (that you're still ignoring) in this video when he talks about longevity (which apparently he can't do because of this JD guy? which one is it?):

So, whatever odd thing this Jeff Dahn guy did to steal your girl in high school grudge match you got going on is getting a little too weird for me.

I'm out.

You're ignoring hard evidence. There are many studies tracking degradation across temperature and SOC. Degradation is drastically higher at high temperatures.

We can see this in the real world where cars in arizona have double the degradation of cars elsewhere. Join the high mileage EV groups and ask what their degradation is. Some cars in arizona have astounding degradation in only a couple years.

I saw a 15% degraded model 3 in only 2 years. It had less than 20K miles on it. He stored it in his garage and it got very hot.

 

[mkhuffman]

You're ignoring hard evidence. There are many studies tracking degradation across temperature and SOC. Degradation is drastically higher at high temperatures.

We can see this in the real world where cars in arizona have double the degradation of cars elsewhere. Join the high mileage EV groups and ask what their degradation is. Some cars in arizona have astounding degradation in only a couple years.

I saw a 15% degraded model 3 in only 2 years. It had less than 20K miles on it. He stored it in his garage and it got very hot.

Maybe you could share a few links to those "studies" instead of just claiming they exist.

 

[mkhuffman]

Look, I'm admittedly a fanboi of EE. I even own one of his t-shirts. If there's one thing I can vouch for of that guy: he doesn't do single source. And he absolutely addresses the Arizona study I cited (that you're still ignoring) in this video when he talks about longevity (which apparently he can't do because of this JD guy? which one is it?):

So, whatever odd thing this Jeff Dahn guy did to steal your girl in high school grudge match you got going on is getting a little too weird for me.

I'm out.

I am not a EE fan. Just the opposite. My opinion of the guy was destroyed when he claimed larger wheels are less efficient and then did a horrible job of explaining why. Does he not know of the Rivian models that are most efficient with the largest wheels? It was idiotic, and ever since that video I cannot stand to watch that goober spout his nonsense. Sorry you are a fan.

 

[madhat]

You're ignoring hard evidence. There are many studies tracking degradation across temperature and SOC. Degradation is drastically higher at high temperatures.

We can see this in the real world where cars in arizona have double the degradation of cars elsewhere. Join the high mileage EV groups and ask what their degradation is. Some cars in arizona have astounding degradation in only a couple years.

I saw a 15% degraded model 3 in only 2 years. It had less than 20K miles on it. He stored it in his garage and it got very hot.

Forum posts are generally unreliable heresay as far as data points are concerned. There's way too much unaccounted for, that and the posters may not want to admit to actions or events that could be affecting results.

 

[madhat]

I am not a EE fan. Just the opposite. My opinion of the guy was destroyed when he claimed larger wheels are less efficient and then did a horrible job of explaining why. Does he not know of the Rivian models that are most efficient with the largest wheels? It was idiotic, and ever since that video I cannot stand to watch that goober spout his nonsense. Sorry you are a fan.

Are you taking tires and wheel aero into account? It's a known thing that more weight, especially further from the hub, will decrease efficiency. Physics and all.

Sponsored