Car owners revolting over Tesla's self driving promises

[Mousetrap]

I would trust it to drive me over someone I don't know.

That took me a couple reads to figure out you weren't talking about driving over people. Must still be early...

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[rinconryder]

While the consumer frustration with Elon's fraudulent technology claims are understandable, the hundreds of people actually injured, and dozens of fatalities are more concerning.

Elon and the actual technology really need to be separated here when discussing it. I am by no means an Elon fanboy these days (I used to be) and I think he has ruined a perfectly great car company by all the distractions and pivoting away from cars. BUT, the technology they are developing is pretty exceptional if used in a responsible manner. Compared to the distracted driving garbage I see every single day on the roads we would be WAY better off safety wise if everyone was using autopilot. I would be willing to bet that there are many many multiples more of serious accidents due to distracted driving than there are to self-driving issues - even when adjusted to reflect the ratios of Teslas and self driving cars to non. For better or worse any time a Tesla crashed while utilizing self driving the world seems to hear about it, but not when someone crashed while looking at their cell phone.

 

[Luxus]

I agree the technology itself is very promising. I do hope we do eventually get to level 4 at a minimum. The issue here is some people jumping the gun and saying we are there when clearly we are not. Which in itself is dangerous. Add to that Musk is charging for something that does not exist yet and lying about when it actually will get here.

The SAE definition of Levels of Driving Automation is attached for reference.

 

[skyguyscott]

Elon and the actual technology really need to be separated here when discussing it. I am by no means an Elon fanboy these days (I used to be) and I think he has ruined a perfectly great car company by all the distractions and pivoting away from cars. BUT, the technology they are developing is pretty exceptional if used in a responsible manner. Compared to the distracted driving garbage I see every single day on the roads we would be WAY better off safety wise if everyone was using autopilot. I would be willing to bet that there are many many multiples more of serious accidents due to distracted driving than there are to self-driving issues - even when adjusted to reflect the ratios of Teslas and self driving cars to non. For better or worse any time a Tesla crashed while utilizing self driving the world seems to hear about it, but not when someone crashed while looking at their cell phone.

I agree that the underlying technology shows some promise, but I would argue, as I am sure Tesla's engineers have in meetings, that overall reliability and safety would be greatly enhanced with additional sensor inputs such as Lidar, Radar, Sonar, Infrared, etc, rather than rely solely on visual cameras alone. It was Elon who decided that visual cameras were sufficient, a decision made, by most accounts, to save costs and lessen complexity and development time. (Elon calls it a "first principles" approach -- classic example of ideology over science and engineering!)

I also think there is a point to be made, as indeed others even here have, that if Elon had better set expectations by labeling the technology more accurately and prosaically, something less sexy such as, say, "Camera-Assisted Computer Control," victims may not have so blindly and fatefully trusted the system with their lives. Calling the Beta-ware "Autopilot" and "Full Self-driving" was a decision Elon made, (and, knowing corporate legal departments in the USA, I am sure over the reasoned objections of Tesla lawyers) -- and in that sense, I think he directly bears not a little responsibility for those deaths.

While current iterations of autopilot and FSD may be safer than a distracted driver under ideal driving conditions, given the documented circumstances of the accidents on record, one must wonder if it is safer than even a conscientious 15-year-old with a learners permit.

And indeed, do we really want to set the bar for autonomous vehicular control so low so as to merely best a distracted driver before we deploy it nationwide in heavy traffic, around schools, on icy roads, during nighttime thunderstorms, in manually directed construction zones, on narrow streets, etc.?

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