All-Season vs. All-Terrain Tires. Ride quality opinions wanted!

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Thanks, but I looked at several tire websites and could not find 255/60R20 sized AS road tires.

https://riviantrackr.com/rivian-tire-guide/

Use the R2 filter

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[thomasoris]

“Eco” is mostly a marketing label. A tire doesn’t have to have the label to be efficient. There might be options that aren’t marketed as such but could yield similar results. The 255/60R20 Pirelli Scorpion MS on the R2 Premium has same exact 330 mi range as the 21” option.

I'm trying to talk her into going with the 21" All Season. She isn't going off road at all, and I have to assume the Pirelli's will last longer than the ones on my R1S. She's afraid she will have to pay more for 21" replacements than 20", but she's going to pay $1000 upfront for the AT anyway. Plus I think within a year or so, some other options will become available, as I think the R2 sales are just going to get stronger.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I'm trying to talk her into going with the 21" All Season. She isn't going off road at all, and I have to assume the Pirelli's will last longer than the ones on my R1S. She's afraid she will have to pay more for 21" replacements than 20", but she's going to pay $1000 upfront for the AT anyway. Plus I think within a year or so, some other options will become available, as I think the R2 sales are just going to get stronger.

You can already see cost differences. And there are plenty of user feedback on the Pirelli MS from R1 owners (granted the R1 is heavier). The riviantrackr tire guide I linked has other AS options (for 20” wheels). And you can make a guess on service life based on tread depth and UTQG info.

Currently the 21” Scorpion MS is the only tire available in that 255/55R21 size. That situation may change in coming years, or it may not. And it is $442 each. Not cheap.

And if you live in a climate that sees heavy snow/ice, there are dedicated snow tires options for the 20”. None for 21”.

If you choose and take delivery of 21s, and change your mind later, you’ll have to budget for wheels and tires… $5k or more. If you take delivery of 20s and change your mind on tires, you’ll only have to budget for tires. And the Scorpion MS is or will be available in 255/60R20, if that’s what you want. R2 configurator shows Premium with it has the same 330 mi range.

As for range anxiety… At worst, 250-270 mi max range is plenty for most users.

 

[Millbarge]

Thanks, but I looked at several tire websites and could not find 255/60R20 sized AS road tires.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/Tire...peedRating=P&minLoadRating=XL&performance=ALL

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

And the “all terrain” BFG T/A+ is $275 each. To me, if 330 mi theoretical max isn’t critical for everyday needs, the choice is clear and self-evident.

Tires are consumables. Do you choose to burn at rate of $442 each or $275? Side bonus for 20s: more compliant ride, more all weather capabilities, more traction off-pavement (including ones caused by weather events), and more rubber to protect rims from potholes and curbs… Plus, perfectly good tire without the “Pirelli” tax.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Thanks, but I looked at several tire websites and could not find 255/60R20 sized AS road tires.

https://riviantrackr.com/rivian-tire-guide/?vehicle=R2&size=255/60R20&category=All-Season

 

[emroch]

And the “all terrain” BFG T/A+ is $275 each. To me, if 330 mi theoretical max isn’t critical for everyday needs, the choice is clear and self-evident.

Tires are consumables. Do you choose to burn at rate of $442 each or $275? Side bonus for 20s: more compliant ride, more all weather capabilities, more traction off-pavement (including ones caused by weather events), and more rubber to protect rims from potholes and curbs… Plus, perfectly good tire without the “Pirelli” tax.

I went with the 20" because I like the look of the wheel better and feel better having more replacement options out the gate, even though I do think there will be more 21" options in due time.

However, I would add the following caveats:

• $275 vs $442 is not a fair comparison if they last for different amounts of time. What we really need is $/mile, which we won't know for sure until we see the wear trends for both tires.
• The sidewall difference is 0.5", so yes you get a bit more curb protection, but not much.
• The AS tires should be perfectly capable for unpaved roads, if that's the extent of off-roading you expect. Packed dirt/gravel roads and grass should be fine in the AS tires.

 

[brperz]

Better ride? Do you consider noise in the better ride decision? ATs will always be noisier, and you can't determine that on a test ride. The 20" Scorpions on the R1 were pretty quiet when new but became screaming banshees around 12k - 15k miles for most people.

My R1T with 21" Michelin Defenders is at the SC. They gave me a beat up '22 R1T loaner with 20" Scorpions. When I got on the street I thought something was wrong with the truck. I quickly realized it was the AT's. They are so loud I can't hear the turn signals on the freeway! I'm not exaggerating! I would have been so pissed to find this out the hard way at an upgraded cost! Now I love my 21's even more!

 

[Josh X]

You can already see cost differences. And there are plenty of user feedback on the Pirelli MS from R1 owners (granted the R1 is heavier). The riviantrackr tire guide I linked has other AS options (for 20” wheels). And you can make a guess on service life based on tread depth and UTQG info.

Currently the 21” Scorpion MS is the only tire available in that 255/55R21 size. That situation may change in coming years, or it may not. And it is $442 each. Not cheap.

And if you live in a climate that sees heavy snow/ice, there are dedicated snow tires options for the 20”. None for 21”.

If you choose and take delivery of 21s, and change your mind later, you’ll have to budget for wheels and tires… $5k or more. If you take delivery of 20s and change your mind on tires, you’ll only have to budget for tires. And the Scorpion MS is or will be available in 255/60R20, if that’s what you want. R2 configurator shows Premium with it has the same 330 mi range.

As for range anxiety… At worst, 250-270 mi max range is plenty for most users.

To further emphasize your point about budgeting $5k for wheels and tires. If you get the 20s and later regret it... I'm betting it will be way easier/cheaper to find someone selling the OEM 21s vs OEM 20s.


Since all launch editions come free with 21s... it'll be the default choice for most people and all people wanting to go aftermarket wheels.

The 20s being a paid option, only for the highest trim will limit how many you see on eBay or marketplaces.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

To further emphasize your point about budgeting $5k for wheels and tires. If you get the 20s and later regret it... I'm betting it will be way easier/cheaper to find someone selling the OEM 21s vs OEM 20s.


Since all launch editions come free with 21s... it'll be the default choice for most people and all people wanting to go aftermarket wheels.

The 20s being a paid option, only for the highest trim will limit how many you see on eBay or marketplaces.

Market for gen1 R1’s 21” wheel is proof. Plus, R2 bolt pattern is fairly common. There will be plenty of aftermarket options for wheels in 20”. The resale market for factory 21s will be small.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

My R1T with 21" Michelin Defenders is at the SC. They gave me a beat up '22 R1T loaner with 20" Scorpions. When I got on the street I thought something was wrong with the truck. I quickly realized it was the AT's. They are so loud I can't hear the turn signals on the freeway! I'm not exaggerating! I would have been so pissed to find this out the hard way at an upgraded cost! Now I love my 21's even more!

You must have sensitive hearing for certain frequencies. I have factory AT and I can hear the loudish Rivian turn signal just fine over tire hum. ATs are lounder than AS. That’s a given. Just like mountain bike tires vs road bike and beach cruiser tires.

 

[jrmbadger]

I can't speak to the R2, but on my Gen 1 R1S, moving from 20" AT tires to the 20" AS tires had a huge positive impact on efficiency and range (like 40-60 more miles of highway range) and a small negative impact on ride quality. As others have said, the AS are quieter too - the AT have a certain "hum" to them.

Granted, I went from a worst case setup with Toyo non-ev tires to the most efficient you can buy 20" All season (General Grabbers). But I don't regret it at all.

Unless you plan to offroad, I say get the AS.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I can't speak to the R2, but on my Gen 1 R1S, moving from 20" AT tires to the 20" AS tires had a huge positive impact on efficiency and range (like 40-60 more miles of highway range) and a small negative impact on ride quality. As others have said, the AS are quieter too - the AT have a certain "hum" to them.

Granted, I went from a worst case setup with Toyo non-ev tires to the most efficient you can buy 20" All season (General Grabbers). But I don't regret it at all.

Unless you plan to offroad, I say get the AS.

Or just pick the 20” “all-terrain” of the launch/performance and replace the BFG tires with AS of your liking. Again, these BFGs are not ATs. They are not as loud or inefficient as real ATs. People are making too much fuss over it being called “all terrain” by Rivian. It’s just a name for the tire/wheel package.

If R2 Premium, the 20” Bicolor Carbon. Then replace the overly expensive Pirelli MS with a better alternative.

 

[R2D2TOO]

I think the BFG AT 20s will be fine.
When the time comes to replace them, I think I wil go with Michelin Defender LTX M/S2s.
Had these for many years of my 4Runner. Great tires.
Not cheap, but I never skimp on tires.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I think the BFG AT 20s will be fine.
When the time comes to replace them, I think I wil go with Michelin Defender LTX M/S2s.
Had these for many years of my 4Runner. Great tires.
Not cheap, but I never skimp on tires.

Just my opinion, my money is on younger brands competing for market share with long established brands. The ones who can charge more, solely on established brand equity, and can get away with it. I work in advertising. Brands spend $ on marketing to build brand equity, so they can ultimately be able to sell more and charge more. As a consumer, if I can get a tire that does the job just as well from a smaller/younger challenger brand, but for less $, I am going to choose to spend less because I believe in value over brand loyalty. Because I know brand loyalty is built on impressions and coercion (rarely built on brand actions, as in things done to benefit customers).

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