Anyone have R2 highway driving range to share? (I'm sure the color you picked looks great)

[Jeremy3292]

I'm sure this will be kicking the hornet's nest, but here goes ; I would say it's not ok if you believe in global climate change and the damage being caused by burning fossil fuels.
I'm a bit surprised that even in the Rivian forum, I have yet to hear a single person express the idea that they bought an EV primarily to avoid burning gasoline (other than for monetary reasons). Rather, it seems it's more about having the latest tech.
The primary reason I'm looking at buying our second EV is to not use gas. For all the keyboard warriors, yes I realize we presently use fossil fuels to generate most of our electricity (at least in the US, except for those of us with solar panels).

This dips into the realm of politics, so I'll stay away from that part of it so I don't get in trouble with the mods. I respect what you wrote, but my point was not everyone agrees on all those points and we should be respectful to those people who disagree and prefer gas vehicles. As much as people would like to think we are close to saving the planet and getting rid of fossil fuels, we are at least a generation away from that being reality IMO. Change from societal norms takes a long time, far longer than people like to think. Powering this planet with renewables just isn't there from a technical nor economic perspective. For example, nuclear is the best option and likely the future, but the cost to do it is so astronomical still. Not to mention the amount of pollutants put in the air by less developed nations, someone driving a gas car does nothing to the overall health of the earth.

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[racekarl]

EVs didn’t win because environmentalists convinced everyone. They won because economics did. Once they became cheaper to fuel, cheaper to maintain, and good enough for daily use, the case made itself.

THat's ignoring the fact that EVs became economically feasible in large part due to incentives that made their initial purchase cost low enough for their lower running costs to actually net out positively. That allowed the market enough runway to mature to the point where the incentives may no longer be needed.

Those incentives were very clearly and explicitly designed with environmental benefits in mind.

 

[Great Gatsby]

I would argue that gas isn't easier, it's just that people are "more familiar" with it.

I find "take a few seconds to plug in when I get home" *FAR* easier than "go out of my way to add gas every week or so".

Even on road trips, yes, the more common availability of gas stations makes it ubiquitous, but EVs with decent navigation systems handle figuring out when to charge, you just pull in where it tells you to and plug in. That's pretty darn easy.

Came to say this. I don't know about ICE being objectively easier but it certainly seems like it because it has been what a lot of us grew up with.

For example - think about the new generation of kids turning 16 now and driving. Is explaining how to drive EV harder than ICE?

With gas, you have to remind them to not leave them on in an enclosed space or it will kill you. The car just coast on its own with no input, so remember to put your foot on the brake if you don't want it to move. For gas, you need regular or premium, so you make sure you pump the right one. Or diesel. This mix up can literally destroy your engine. Engine also requires an oil change every few months. Oh and when you hit the gas, input isn't linear. There is a transmission. You need to row threw gears, but fortunately, it does that automatically now to put you in the best one.

A lot of us forget how much it took us to understand ICE cars since they were the default, but I do not think they are objectively "easier." For some, sure, but not a broad statement.

That's simply your opinion though. Not everyone feels that way and that's ok from my perspective.

Then it is not an objective statement.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

True. I have a longtime friend who is a fellow car enthusiast, and an amateur racer. But he's very conservative and anti-EV, although he's never driven one. He's holding out for hydrogen
When I get my R2 I plan to convince him to try it (although I've been unsuccessful in that so far with our EV6).

I'm a long time car enthusiast, was a casual skeptic initially—when the Tesla Roadster was seen as a garage experiment with dozens of laptop batteries glued together. Then, around 2012, a friend and fellow car enthusiast outlined for me, point-for-point, a comparison between his BMW M5 and a early model S. The evidence was clear. Even from an enthusiast POV, the useable [daily] performance of electric drivetrain is impossible to discount or deny. Yes, EVs fall flat at the top end. But unless you are on a track, you'd never extract and enjoy that out of a performance-oriented ICE. And comparing ownership costs of an M5 to a Model S? a matter of simple math. Since then, EVs and batteries have gotten much better too. My T is my first EV and I can say it has pretty much ruined my interest in the newest/greatest ICE cars. Even exotics.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Then it is not an objective statement.

"Gas is less convenient. EV's are easier" is not a fact nor an objective statement. It is subjective and a personal opinion. Which was my point of course.

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

We got an Excalade IQ Sport recently and took it on a 2400 mile road trip, easily gets over 400 miles at 75mph, and peak charging is at 375kw.

Bill has the ultimate luxury road trip EV that exists today.

 

[CharonPDX]

That's simply your opinion though. Not everyone feels that way and that's ok from my perspective.

"objectively easier" is just your opinion, too. There's nothing "objective" about it. Perhaps you meant "subjectively easier to me."

 

[Great Gatsby]

"Gas is less convenient. EV's are easier" is not a fact nor an objective statement. It is subjective and a personal opinion. Which was my point of course.

I was responding to this portion of your original post:

"Gas is objectively easier for most people and there's nothing wrong with that."

But agreed, we are allowed to disagree and nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jeremy3292]

"objectively easier" is just your opinion, too. There's nothing "objective" about it. Perhaps you meant "subjectively easier to me."

I was responding to this portion of your original post:

"Gas is objectively easier for most people and there's nothing wrong with that."

But agreed, we are allowed to disagree and nothing wrong with that.

Ahh I see now. You're right. Poor phrasing on my part.

 

[ksurfier]

That may be true, but it wasn't my point. In fact it strengthens my point that despite all the data (France and England are in a heat state of emergency right now), the climate seems to be low on the list (or missing from it entirely) of most people's reasons to go EV.

Well, we could certainly debate the climate response to CO₂ and other greenhouse gases — if only we had a time machine to go back to the 1990s. That debate ended a long time ago.

 

[Husky]

This dips into the realm of politics, so I'll stay away from that part of it so I don't get in trouble with the mods. I respect what you wrote, but my point was not everyone agrees on all those points and we should be respectful to those people who disagree and prefer gas vehicles. As much as people would like to think we are close to saving the planet and getting rid of fossil fuels, we are at least a generation away from that being reality IMO. Change from societal norms takes a long time, far longer than people like to think. Powering this planet with renewables just isn't there from a technical nor economic perspective. For example, nuclear is the best option and likely the future, but the cost to do it is so astronomical still. Not to mention the amount of pollutants put in the air by less developed nations, someone driving a gas car does nothing to the overall health of the earth.

I respect your opinion, and I won't go into this any further, except to say that it's very sad that the science has been made political by people who don't respect science. And you have to start somewhere; kicking the can down the road and saying it's too soon is what got us into this mess. We've had decades.

 

[Dark-Fx]

We got an Excalade IQ Sport recently and took it on a 2400 mile road trip, easily gets over 400 miles at 75mph, and peak charging is at 375kw.

My Sierra EV's lifetime (14,6k miles) efficiency is 1.2 mi/kwh

 

[JeffnReno]

https://en.highstar.com/blog/4695-cylindrical-battery-rivian-r2

Appears to be a paper from a Chinese battery manufacturer, talking about a competitor's (LG) 4695, the strengths of the 46 series battery in general, and why Rivian chose it. So, somewhat impartial.

From consumer POV, you won't feel the difference. The advantage of higher energy density for automakers is needing fewer cells to build a pack, which not only mean lower quantity of cells to buy, but also lower assembly complexity and cost.

And once LG's US plant ramps, that'd remove tariffs out of that supply equation. One of the reasons lower priced R2 trims aren't offered yet.

That's good article and I appreciate it.

 

[Horsey]

And yet Phoenix to Tucson has charging in between. As does Phoenix to Vegas. As does Tucson to San Diego, as does…. etc.

Phoenix to Tucson is only ~110 miles. ~140 miles if you are going from the very North edge of Phoenix to the very South edge of Tucson. Should be a perfectly doable round trip even at 80 MPH in an R2. (ABRP routing of an R2 Performance from Deer Valley to Tucson Int'l and back: )

Vegas to Reno impossible until very recently? Define very recently.

And in the Southwest, you can't even stop "on a whim" in an ICE car, where there are some stretches of road with no gas stations for 80+ miles.

Try driving from Tonopah to Jackpot, it's basically exactly the same options to stop for fuel as it is to charge:

You’re from PDX, so you’re forgetting that it’s 40°C down here half the year lol. You lose range running the AC. I drove Tucson > PHX literally Monday for my R2 test drive and stopped at a SC for 20% of charge before returning home with about 25% battery in my Lightning. You’re also discounting the incidental driving once you get to the destination. Yes there are chargers here on i10, but when you’re down to 20% battery on the road, you’re now not within range of another charger if you’re in-between the cities. On a long trip, I’m not comfortable arriving without a buffer, and you should be too. I get it, you can’t die outside in the PNW unless it’s dead of winter, but down here, summers are brutal without AC and lots of water to drink.

We’re all going to have to be careful driving until there’s chargers at every exit like there are gas stations. Yes there are dry stretches for gasoline too, but good ICE cars get 100-300 more “kilometrage” than EVs right now.

And in all honesty, a 4 hour drive is the sweet spot for road trips before you should need to piss, stretch, and eat.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I respect your opinion, and I won't go into this any further, except to say that it's very sad that the science has been made political by people who don't respect science. And you have to start somewhere; kicking the can down the road and saying it's too soon is what got us into this mess. We've had decades.

If you thought I was saying we shouldn't try, then I chose my words poorly. We certainly should try today, but we are a generation away even with us trying today. Demonizing those around us who drive gas vehicles shouldn't be our focus (not saying you said that, I'm just saying) especially when you look at the CO2 emissions by country below. Even if the USA somehow reduced our emissions to zero, China is still 3x and just them alone almost equals the rest of the entire top 10!

We should instead focus our energy (no pun intended lol) on improving the technical and economics side of renewables. Taking it to EV's which is the discussion on this forum: faster charging, more charging, and longer range should be the main focus. Then we have no tradeoffs with gas vehicles anymore and coupled with the economics of EV's it further tilts in our favor. EV's are good today, but they aren't great. We need great to convince everyone to dump gas vehicles.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/

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