Tesla FSD drives down railroad tracks, gets hit by train

[COdogman]

No, we've had this same discussion 43 times.

So you won't share information that would clearly prove your false statement is true? Just give me a link to a thread or even a date when you posted it. I will quote it and share it here for you! Help me to help you....

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[Dark-Fx]

Not sure where this is coming from. All I did was speculate that at 5:30am the driver could have had some drinks - or I suppose could have been drowsy - and thus over-relying on FSD.

What does that have to do with the nonprofit raffle I volunteer to help run? And by the way, this year’s Grand Prize winner chose a Tri-motor Max R1T in Storm Blue - a beautiful truck - vehicle, some accessories and all taxes paid by Climate XChange

Because you somehow think someone being on the road at 5:30 AM means they were trying to get home after drinking. Sounds like projection to me.

 

[JM.]

Help me to help you....

I don't need any help, thanks!

Also I wonder if this will turn into yet another of the many events where the claim of using AP/FSD will turn out to not be true.

 

[COdogman]

I don't need any help, thanks!

Also I wonder if this will turn into yet another of the many events where the claim of using AP/FSD will turn out to not be true.

 

[bigsky]

The Tesla haters will hopelessly cling onto and blissfully get off at the slightest bit of info on alleged FSD malfeasance.

I myself will wait for all the information to come out. As always, having used FSD on my Teslas > 5 years, regardless of hardware version, I know FSD limitations very well. I know what it can do and cannot do. It is by far the greatest, most amazing innovation on any EV in America today. Everybody else, including those herpes-ridden self-driving little cars corralled in little cities is a distant second. It is not even close.

Just because FSD is not level 5 yet, many out there, and many of those having not ever so much as sniffed a Tesla, let alone own one and use FSD regularly, have the gall and the audacity to pretend to know better and more about FSD than we actual Tesla owners do.

FSD is not level 5. I myself doubt it ever will be. Or anything else ADAS out there for that matter. But this DOES NOT mean that FSD therefore is worthless and no good. Total bull.

And actual users of Tesla FSD know quite well the warning that pops up on the display as soon as FSD is engaged: keep hands on the wheel, be ready to take over at any time. Do not be complacent, etc. Pay attention always, be ready. Or don't use it, full stop.

 

[PeterSK]

Because you somehow think someone being on the road at 5:30 AM means they were trying to get home after drinking. Sounds like projection to me.

The prior post mentioned irrational human behavior. Alcohol could drive that. And I have definitely heard of people bragging that FSD gets them home after a night out. I have a 2021 Model Y with FSD but don’t use it except for interstates - I don’t trust it. And I drink very little these days - my body can’t handle it like when I was younger. I think you’ve jumped to conclusions, which you then tried to use to impugn my raffle.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

The Tesla haters will hopelessly cling onto and blissfully get off at the slightest bit of info on alleged FSD malfeasance.

I myself will wait for all the information to come out. As always, having used FSD on my Teslas > 5 years, regardless of hardware version, I know FSD limitations very well. I know what it can do and cannot do. It is by far the greatest, most amazing innovation on any EV in America today. Everybody else, including those herpes-ridden self-driving little cars corralled in little cities is a distant second. It is not even close.

Just because FSD is not level 5 yet, many out there, and many of those having not ever so much as sniffed a Tesla, let alone own one and use FSD regularly, have the gall and the audacity to pretend to know better and more about FSD than we actual Tesla owners do.

FSD is not level 5. I myself doubt it ever will be. Or anything else ADAS out there for that matter. But this DOES NOT mean that FSD therefore is worthless and no good. Total bull.

And actual users of Tesla FSD know quite well the warning that pops up on the display as soon as FSD is engaged: keep hands on the wheel, be ready to take over at any time. Do not be complacent, etc. Pay attention always, be ready. Or don't use it, full stop.

We don’t need a Tesla to understand human nature. The simple fact is you will pay less attention when using ADAS than when not. Otherwise, there would be no point in using it. This system is not safe enough for drivers to pay less attention and therefore serves no purpose.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The Tesla haters will hopelessly cling onto and blissfully get off at the slightest bit of info on alleged FSD malfeasance.

I myself will wait for all the information to come out.

You have absolutely not done this.

Everybody else, including those herpes-ridden self-driving little cars corralled in little cities is a distant second

I have to assume you're talking about the Tesla "Robotaxi" launch in Austin, because you've exactly described it.

@RivianHead is that you? How are your Cybertruck sales going?

 

[COdogman]

The Tesla haters will hopelessly cling onto and blissfully get off at the slightest bit of info on alleged FSD malfeasance.

I myself will wait for all the information to come out. As always, having used FSD on my Teslas > 5 years, regardless of hardware version, I know FSD limitations very well. I know what it can do and cannot do. It is by far the greatest, most amazing innovation on any EV in America today. Everybody else, including those herpes-ridden self-driving little cars corralled in little cities is a distant second. It is not even close.

Just because FSD is not level 5 yet, many out there, and many of those having not ever so much as sniffed a Tesla, let alone own one and use FSD regularly, have the gall and the audacity to pretend to know better and more about FSD than we actual Tesla owners do.

FSD is not level 5. I myself doubt it ever will be. Or anything else ADAS out there for that matter. But this DOES NOT mean that FSD therefore is worthless and no good. Total bull.

And actual users of Tesla FSD know quite well the warning that pops up on the display as soon as FSD is engaged: keep hands on the wheel, be ready to take over at any time. Do not be complacent, etc. Pay attention always, be ready. Or don't use it, full stop.

How convenient for you that Tesla refuses to provide "all the information" that could settle the question once and for all, right? I bet you are very upset about it....

If the data they collect from all those miles actually supported the argument that FSD/ Autopilot is safer than a human driver, why would they not share and advertise that every chance they could? Instead, they fight every request to see the data.

 

[AaronTV]

I'm not familiar with FSD, so it could take me a good bit of time to figure out how to stop FSD if it involves anything more than pressing the brake.

I have a Model 3 with FSD and it is very easy to disengage. You can either touch the brake pedal or take control of the steering wheel (by countering something the car is trying to do).

From the photos (telephone poles/trees visible in background to indicate which direction the car turned) and Google Maps, the probable scenario is that the car was headed southeast (top to bottom) and FSD turned left. It's not a 90 degree turn, more like 35 - 45 degrees, so the speed could have easily been 20 mph and not even considered a "turn" by FSD. It seems less likely that FSD would have made a mistake by turning 135 degrees.

Good info here and the car probably did try to turn onto the tracks. I'm skeptical of this story overall, though, because of the ease of taking control of the vehicle in such a situation. For the car to actually end up 30-40' down the tracks or whatever requires a massive failure by the driver. Personally, that's where I'd lay the majority of the blame for this. That said, I'm also skeptical about Tesla planning to launch robotaxi vehicles in the near term. I haven't seen any evidence yet that suggests edge cases like this are functionally solved.

The problem is that Tesla advertises "Full Self Driving" (FSD). It is not FSD and requires constant supervision. People believe that they have FSD and stop paying attention.
ADAS does reduce accidents but FSD doesn't exist (except perhaps in Waymo cars which have much better sensors).

There were other comments like this in the thread but I picked this one to respond to. It may seem like a small technicality but it does make a large difference in how people perceive FSD: Tesla does NOT advertise "Full Self Driving" they advertise "Full Self Driving (Supervised)" and it clearly states this everywhere from the app to the vehicle screen. The user cannot enable the feature without explicitly being told that they need to pay attention and are ultimately responsible for what the car does. The inside camera does a thorough job (in my experience anyway) of making sure the driver is looking at the road. If I look at the screen for more than a couple seconds it starts alerting me, same for looking down or backwards or anywhere apart from the road. It's pretty smart too. It doesn't alert you if, for example, the car is making a right turn and I look out the left window to watch for traffic. But if I do that on the highway it will alert me.

Anyway, I'm not here to proclaim FSD the greatest invention in the history of mankind or worship at Elon's feet. But I do own a vehicle that has it (and not even the hw4 version) and it is extremely impressive and very fun to use. I like driving so I don't use it all the time but it's lovely for longer drives. The driver does need to be alert just in case something weird happens but, honestly, that's super rare in my experience and usually involves the vehicle being too tentative rather than aggressive.

This take assumes the vehicle has at least version 12.6.4 or higher (version 13.x on hw4 vehicles). On hw3 that version has been standard for several months and is quite good.

 

[drift]

As I mentioned in a previous thread, the primary purpose of ADAS systems is to alleviate some of the driver's workload. When using them, people will pay less attention than they would if they were driving. That fact gives us accidents like this one, where it's easy to point fingers at the driver after the fact, but it doesn't do us any good to avoid accidents like this one.

Many of these issues happened when GPS first came into the picture, and still does with GPS. Human drivers trusting the computer more than they trust their own judgement leads to scenarios like this one, which is why FDS isn't safe for driving on the roads.


I don't want to hear about versions or nonsense like that. The fact of the matter is the version that caused this accident is called Full Self Drive and was marketed as being a safe driving assistant on public roads. It is NOT safe, and should be recalled. The fact that it isn't makes me not trust ANY version of this software because behavior like this is seen as acceptable.

How many people are killed each year on train tracks in non-fsd equipped vehicles?

 

[COdogman]

How many people are killed each year on train tracks in non-fsd equipped vehicles?

Unless you have evidence it has been or will be less using FSD, that statement framed as a question is meaningless.

 

[Dark-Fx]

There were other comments like this in the thread but I picked this one to respond to. It may seem like a small technicality but it does make a large difference in how people perceive FSD: Tesla does NOT advertise "Full Self Driving" they advertise "Full Self Driving (Supervised)" and it clearly states this everywhere from the app to the vehicle screen.

Revisionist history. https://electrek.co/2024/03/28/tesla-supervised-full-self-driving-language/

And why call v13 the same thing as v12 if there's been an obvious improvement in the system, as so claimed?

 

[bigsky]

We don’t need a Tesla to understand human nature. The simple fact is you will pay less attention when using ADAS than when not. Otherwise, there would be no point in using it. This system is not safe enough for drivers to pay less attention and therefore serves no purpose.

A hasty generalization. I myself pay the necessary attention when using FSD on the highway.
Besides, FSD tells you upfront what to do and not do if engaging it. Ignore that, you can't fix stupid. Nothing can, indeed.

And one does need a Tesla and have firsthand use and experience on FSD ; otherwise, what anybody has to say about FSD solely from online experience reading material that feeds your prejudice is just chaff.

 

[JM.]

The simple fact is you will pay less attention when using ADAS than when not.

False, of course, in fact the opposite is true often since you can focus your attention and are less worn out.

How many people are killed each year on train tracks in non-fsd equipped vehicles?

So far, way more right?

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