My day-two review of the Comma 3X Self Driving Camera for Gen1 R1- Promising, but not ready for laymen.

[risingphoenix]

Bullshit, specifically, calling it a "quality" issue. It's also completely ridiculous to tell people to change tires, possibly to something less useful for their needs, just to please the ADAS. I don't have OEM tires, and I do have "quality" tires, but OP can't even handle some gentle curves around my area. This is really stupid.

But of course, the native system can't even be enabled there, so obviously OP is better since it actually does something.

I got my secondary harness yesterday, hopefully I can start using the auto lane changing soon that Don says we don't have. BTW, you are wasting every word you type to him.

I can't disagree with any of your points except that I don't think I'm wasting my time typing to Don or anyone else.

There are 2 things that I'd like to emphasize.

First, for anyone that hasn't experienced how Open Pilot works, the assistive steering is very unique from any other ADAS that I have experienced. It does not "take over" steering but essentially sits in the background with minimal interference to your manual driving. It's really hard to describe and is so incredible that many comma users leave MADS (which is steering control only) on ALL the time, even when they have hands on the wheel and are steering. It's like having a very gentle passive driving instructor with you at all times. I truly believe that if Don or any other non believer was able to use the system they would become a fan. For most that have a comma, this is a feature that we would not want to be without.

Second, I assume that the vast majority of us on this forum are fans of Rivian and want them to succeed. Rivian has some legal exposure with Gen 1 owners given the assurances that were made regarding ADAS that they will never be able to keep. It would be detrimental to the company's financial viability if a large number of Gen 1 owners were to join a class action lawsuit against Rivian. Open Pilot gives Gen 1 owners a reasonably priced option to gain the features we hoped for and expected with our purchase. If for no other reason, we all should encourage those unhappy with Rivian's Driver+ to consider Open Pilot and a comma device.

OP, thank you for making this thread and have a great holiday everyone!

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[dmurphy]

First, for anyone that hasn't experienced how Open Pilot works, the assistive steering is very unique from any other ADAS that I have experienced. It does not "take over" steering but essentially sits in the background with minimal interference to your manual driving. It's really hard to describe and is so incredible that many comma users leave MADS (which is steering control only) on ALL the time, even when they have hands on the wheel and are steering. It's like having a very gentle passive driving instructor with you at all times. I truly believe that if Don or any other non believer was able to use the system they would become a fan. For most that have a comma, this is a feature that we would not want to be without.

As much as I’m enjoying my Comma device, this isn’t something I’m ready to embrace yet, if ever.

Mentally, I treat any ADAS system as I would an airliner Autopilot. Either I’m in control, or the autopilot is. There’s no scenario where I want both of us to have authority.

It’s very binary in my head - I want to disengage the machine quickly in an emergency situation. A step on the brake or a tug up on the stalk should be all I need to regain full authority.

 

[MrMusAddict]

Thanks for sharing. I’m about to install my setup with the added longitudinal Lukas harness.
I’m not looking forward to the footwell contortions.
What pry kit did you buy? Which tool in that was most useful? (Pic if it’s easier to describe the tool?)

This is the exact kit I bought:

https://a.co/d/3wxzBwx

The one on the far left is what I used to pry. The second from the right was useful to fish the USB cable through the A pillars trim.

 

[technerd]

This thread is a wild ride, I don't get why there's so much discord on which ADAS is better, does it matter? I have a Gen 1, and after completing an 1800 mile roadtrip yesterday, Gen 1's have A LOT of room to improve, and Rivian won't be providing it. I will definitely be getting a 3X at some point, just need to replenish the savings a bit from my trip, and maybe see what improvement continue to roll in for OP & Rivian.

I was surprised that most of my journey from SE PA through Ohio and Kentucky were mapped on Driver+, so I used it extensively. Honestly my main complaint is the adaptive cruise, and how it continues to slow down as you change lanes when there's someone in front of you. You pretty much have to have completely changed lanes for 5 seconds before it starts to speed back up, slowly. I found myself constantly manually accelerating back up to speed after changing lanes or I'd get people coming up quick on me.

So my question: I know you need Lucas' extra harness to enable longitudinal controls on the wheel, but is OP then controlling the speed or is that still using the default Rivian software?

 

[MrMusAddict]

This thread is a wild ride, I don't get why there's so much discord on which ADAS is better, does it matter? I have a Gen 1, and after completing an 1800 mile roadtrip yesterday, Gen 1's have A LOT of room to improve, and Rivian won't be providing it. I will definitely be getting a 3X at some point, just need to replenish the savings a bit from my trip, and maybe see what improvement continue to roll in for OP & Rivian.

I was surprised that most of my journey from SE PA through Ohio and Kentucky were mapped on Driver+, so I used it extensively. Honestly my main complaint is the adaptive cruise, and how it continues to slow down as you change lanes when there's someone in front of you. You pretty much have to have completely changed lanes for 5 seconds before it starts to speed back up, slowly. I found myself constantly manually accelerating back up to speed after changing lanes or I'd get people coming up quick on me.

So my question: I know you need Lucas' extra harness to enable longitudinal controls on the wheel, but is OP then controlling the speed or is that still using the default Rivian software?

If you intend to use Lucas' extra harness, you'll need to install a custom fork of OP which as I understand it takes full control of speed.

 

[risingphoenix]

As much as I’m enjoying my Comma device, this isn’t something I’m ready to embrace yet, if ever.

Mentally, I treat any ADAS system as I would an airliner Autopilot. Either I’m in control, or the autopilot is. There’s no scenario where I want both of us to have authority.

It’s very binary in my head - I want to disengage the machine quickly in an emergency situation. A step on the brake or a tug up on the stalk should be all I need to regain full authority.

Certainly your choice to ever even use ADAS or not. But "autopilot" in an airliner is a bad analogy. The pilot is ALWAYS in control on an airplane. No course alterations or decisions are being made by the system - the pilot sets speed, altitude, and heading and all the "autopilot" does is maintain that. Think of airplane autopilot like putting a brick on the accelerator of your car. Autoland is available on airplanes with special equipment but can only be used under specific conditions and specific ATCs - about 1% of the time.

You can easily disengage OpenPilot with a step on the brake and I believe soon with the stalk (although not currently). This is another huge benefit of open source software with active development vs the closed system approach: advancements and changes happen quickly.

 

[JM.]

Open Pilot works, the assistive steering is very unique from any other ADAS that I have experienced. It does not "take over" steering but essentially sits in the background with minimal interference to your manual driving.

Yeah, this is very unusual, and useful, but I'm still not used to it and sometimes causes a challenge. But mostly really great. Particularly around construction or any challenge where you want to just nudge it around but not have it turn off like every other car.

Second, I assume that the vast majority of us on this forum are fans of Rivian

I don't understand this. I'm not a fan of any company. If they make the best thing for me today, I will buy today. And tomorrow I'll buy whatever is best them. I would 100% go back to a Tesla instantly if they had a usable truck. I have a Rivian only because I refuse to drive ICE, and the other EV trucks are bad jokes.

It’s very binary in my head - I want to disengage the machine quickly in an emergency situation. A step on the brake or a tug up on the stalk should be all I need to regain full authority.

You have this, AND cooperative steering, both. Cooperative steering's benefits are super obvious without removing any control.

 

[risingphoenix]

I don't understand this. I'm not a fan of any company. If they make the best thing for me today, I will buy today. And tomorrow I'll buy whatever is best them.

Do you want your vehicle to continue to get serviced? I'm a fan of the company that made my vehicle - at least while I own it.

 

[JM.]

So my question: I know you need Lucas' extra harness to enable longitudinal controls on the wheel, but is OP then controlling the speed or is that still using the default Rivian software?

OpenPilot cannot do speed control at all on the Rivian, and probably won't ever.

SunnyPilot can do speed control without the harness. But no steering buttons. Also it can't see the blind spot monitors so you don't want to do auto lane changes. SP speed control on the Rivian is pretty crappy right now. Not dangerous or unusable, but annoying and requires management.

The Lukas/XNOR fork of SunnyPilot with the second harness gives you buttons, the BSM, and possibly more to come.

 

[iansriv]

Yeah, just seems like a hack to add a poor man’s Gen 2 capabilities to Gen 1. If one is happy with that, cool. I’m not convinced, however

Who is responsible if there is a system malfunction that causes an accident? I'm not for or against this system. Just curious.

 

[godfodder0901]

Who is responsible if there is a system malfunction that causes an accident? I'm not for or against this system. Just curious.

The driver. Always the driver.

 

[JM.]

Who is responsible if there is a system malfunction that causes an accident? I'm not for or against this system. Just curious.

Nobody knows, since it seems like it has never happened, that I can find. And how would you envision that it could possibly cause a crash, since the driver is still the one in full control? Maybe, like a lot of people, you assume it could possibly just randomly swerve off a cliff or something? There's a reason the lateral force is limited, it can't.

 

[captainjp]

Nobody knows, since it seems like it has never happened, that I can find. And how would you envision that it could possibly cause a crash, since the driver is still the one in full control? Maybe, like a lot of people, you assume it could possibly just randomly swerve off a cliff or something? There's a reason the lateral force is limited, it can't.

lol. Driver. It’s a hack

 

[risingphoenix]

Who is responsible if there is a system malfunction that causes an accident? I'm not for or against this system. Just curious.

The same person that's responsible if there is a system malfunction in the Rivian that causes an accident. If you're not comfortable using and monitoring an ADAS (regardless of vendor) you shouldn't engage it.

 

[dmurphy]

Certainly your choice to ever even use ADAS or not. But "autopilot" in an airliner is a bad analogy. The pilot is ALWAYS in control on an airplane. No course alterations or decisions are being made by the system - the pilot sets speed, altitude, and heading and all the "autopilot" does is maintain that. Think of airplane autopilot like putting a brick on the accelerator of your car. Autoland is available on airplanes with special equipment but can only be used under specific conditions and specific ATCs - about 1% of the time.

You can easily disengage OpenPilot with a step on the brake and I believe soon with the stalk (although not currently). This is another huge benefit of open source software with active development vs the closed system approach: advancements and changes happen quickly.

… and that’s what makes an airliner autopilot the perfect analogy, actually. I don’t want a situation where I don’t have ultimate control - keep the wings level, airspeed where I set it, and follow the route I give you. But I still maintain ultimate control, and any manual input transfers authority from the machine to me.

MADS is disconcerting to me as in when I make a manual input the car continues to do its own thing. Default mode in Sunnypilot does NOT disengage when pressing the brake, and in fact, on Rivian, offers basically no way to shut off except putting into offline mode or disconnecting the thing.

I realize I’m likely in the minority on this, but I’m really only after a driver assistant, and not turning over all responsibility.

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