Rivian Automatically Records "Incidents" - Privacy Concerns

[GHuff]

I don't know how I just noticed this, but looking through the Drivecam screen, I noticed a tab called "Incidents". These are all "incidents" that Rivian automatically recognizes, records, and saves down. I was unaware this was occurring in the background, and frankly, I don't like it at all.

My "incidents" tab was filled with yellow lights and other "dangerous" behavior that I'm sure any insurance provider would not be happy about.

What is the purpose of Rivian automatically saving these incidents? I find it hard to believe that my insurance (or the authorities) don't have access to these "incidents" if they really wanted.

Personal Opinion on Privacy: I previously had Rivian auto insurance, but after talking to them in depth about their data sharing, I cancelled. I learned that I was getting a substantial discount on insurance because I unknowingly agreed to a service that allows Rivian to capture all of my driving data. Yes, that could be viewed as a good thing. But I'm a firm believer that this isn't really a "discount"...it's the new norm. What I mean by that is if you don't comply with sharing all of your data, you have to pay more. Not the other way around--where you get a discount if you do share your data. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to pay more to keep some privacy, but I shouldn't have to do that. Rivian joins the list of companies that are making it very expensive for customers to not share their data...and they do it by under the guise of getting a "discount". As the years go by, we get more and more complacent and agree to give away more data and privacy all in the name of saving a few dollars. But, in reality, we aren't saving any money; they are just making it more expensive to keep your privacy. I literally had to choose between not sharing data and paying more vs. sharing all data and saving some money. Soon, the norm will be that every vehicle has full data sharing with insurance companies, and, assuming you even have the ability to opt out, then you have to pay a significant premium. That's where the world is quickly headed. And I don't think anyone likes a world with zero privacy or ownership of your own data.

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[kylealden]

This is a feature for your safety and legal coverage if something happens. It is designed to record potential accidents, and triggers a local recording to your vehicle/external drive under specific conditions highlighted in the manual including hard braking and safety systems (e.g. anti-collision or traction control) being triggered. This is a great feature if you want, say, proof that a collision wasn't your fault. You can turn it off in settings:

These recordings are kept on your vehicle and only accessible through Gear Guard (e.g., not by your insurer). Separate from Gear Guard, Rivian may upload some data from collisions, but that is not the same scope as the "incidents" you're viewing: Does Rivian access my Gear Guard videos? Can Rivian provide a copy of a video from my collision?

Rivian does not share data with outside insurers or data brokers: Do you share my driving data with insurance companies? - Support Center - Rivian

 

[eskudo12791]

Maybe don't drive in a manner which triggers the incident recordings?

 

[COdogman]

My client would like to run yellow lights in private, your honor.

 

[kylealden]

My client would like to run yellow lights in private, your honor.

The funny thing is the Incidents view definitely doesn't track yellow lights, so my guess is those recordings are triggered by either hard braking on seeing a light, hard acceleration to clear an intersection, or collision warnings.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Maybe don't drive in a manner which triggers the incident recordings?

You're missing the point. Telematics exchange is a huge issue, and I don't like it either. Not the gear guard cam but using telematics to give you insurance rates is some 1984 shit, and I don't care for it. At least Rivian doesn't sell your telematics to third parties like lexis nexis or varirisk like GM did without their customer's knowledge (permission buried in a TOS for a product they are auto enrolled in).

People need to push back on this crap or it's only going to get worse.

 

[GHuff]

Maybe don't drive in a manner which triggers the incident recordings?

Jokes aside...we all know that's not possible. But apparently Rivian insurance thinks I'm a very safe driver and offered me a 40% discount. So other drivers out there must have a lot more "incidents" than me

 

[GHuff]

My client would like to run yellow lights in private, your honor.

Haha but yes, who wouldn't? Is that too much to ask? Because the alternative is not a great place-where we have a social credit score, insurance score, cameras on every street corner and in every vehicle tracking anything and everything. It's not a far fetched idea-it's happening.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I'll put it this way: if Rivian starts selling my telematics data to third parties, I'm done with the brand. There's no point in me having an 850 hp tri motor vehicle if my insurance rate rises every time I want to goose it a little. Especially since the insurer cannot see that the road I just opened it up on is flat, easy to see, wide road, and empty, AKA safe to do when I do it. For example, what's the difference if I blast off on a freeway onramp with no one in front of me up to the freeway speed limit? I'm sure most here would agree that this represents minimal risk on a straight ramp and dry pavement. Telematics will just see "rapid acceleration event" and record it as a knock against eme.

Cars, in general, are moving this way, and it will be the end of having fun while driving. I'm not going to pay an insurance rate that is artificially inflated because I like to have fun while in a safe spot to do so. Say all cars wind up going to this garbage, then I will drive something cheap and slow on purpose to not pay and build myself an older ICE car to play with driving around or a track car.

 

[COdogman]

The funny thing is the Incidents view definitely doesn't track yellow lights, so my guess is those recordings are triggered by either hard braking on seeing a light, hard acceleration to clear an intersection, or collision warnings.

Great point. If incidents are turned on everything is captured but not saved other than hard braking and/ or near collisions. Obviously it will catch other stuff too. No one is a perfect driver.

When Incidents is on, Gear Guard cameras continuously record video, but no footage is saved. Incidents constantly monitors vehicle dynamics to identify incidents, and if one occurs, saves video of the event. For example, if you are cut off in traffic and have to slam on the brakes, this near-impact scenario would trigger the anti-lock braking system and, in turn, activate Incidents. The fifteen seconds of video that was recorded prior to the event would be saved, and Incidents would also save video of the following 1 minute 45 seconds. These Incidents videos are saved directly to your R1T or R1S internal hard drive; no USB-C drive is necessary.

https://stories.rivian.com/software-update-drive-cam

 

[eskudo12791]

Haha but yes, who wouldn't? Is that too much to ask? Because the alternative is not a great place-where we have a social credit score, insurance score, cameras on every street corner and in every vehicle tracking anything and everything. It's not a far fetched idea-it's happening.

You're missing the point. Telematics exchange is a huge issue, and I don't like it either. Not the gear guard cam but using telematics to give you insurance rates is some 1984 shit, and I don't care for it. At least Rivian doesn't sell your telematics to third parties like lexis nexis or varirisk like GM did without their customer's knowledge (permission buried in a TOS for a product they are auto enrolled in).

People need to push back on this crap or it's only going to get worse.

Im not missing the point though, dont drive wrecklessly, quite simple?

 

[COdogman]

Haha but yes, who wouldn't? Is that too much to ask? Because the alternative is not a great place-where we have a social credit score, insurance score, cameras on every street corner and in every vehicle tracking anything and everything. It's not a far fetched idea-it's happening.

Oh I agree. And it's entirely possible if you were in an accident that wasn't your fault, the opposing party's insurance lawyers would attempt to get those recordings. I would expect it. That is why Rivian allows us to turn it off and on as we please. Maybe they should have it turned off by default instead of on.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

@eskudo12791 You want to live in a nanny state that's on you. I don't. I also explained how telematics could be misintepreted based on perfectly safe activities once already, but apparently I need to do it again.


I don't consider accelerating up to speed rapidly on a flat freeway onramp with no one in front of you to be reckless. Telematics data would record a "rapid acceleration" incident and your rates WILL increase if you have enough of those. There is no context in telematics data, it just records what your car is doing. You could be a safe driver who likes to have fun when it is safe to do so and be labeled reckless because of telematics.

Maybe you don't accelerate faster than a turtle in your R1, good for you. Rivian isn't going to sell many to those of us who do if we get penalized for it. There is no point in a car with a 0-60 time in the 3-second range tattling on you for using that speed.

P.S. learn how to quote the forum properly please, it's really difficult to read the way you did it.

 

[GHuff]

What a computer deems "reckless" is not always accurate.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

Haha but yes, who wouldn't? Is that too much to ask? Because the alternative is not a great place-where we have a social credit score, insurance score, cameras on every street corner and in every vehicle tracking anything and everything. It's not a far fetched idea-it's happening.

I know you're trying to fear monger and all, but a large portion of road users were literally safer in 1984. Your ill-conceived notion that you're somehow only affecting yourself when you recklessly drive a 7,500 missile on publicly-funded roads is nonsensical.

The more this line goes up, and the corresponding one for bicyclists, the more regulation and "lack of freedom" you'll experience on the road. Keep the line down, and there won't be a need for "telematics" or the "nanny state" to crack down on you.

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