EV Adoption and the curbside charging port - Interesting Podcast

[Augsburg]

There has been a lot of discussion on why Rivian located the charging ports for the R2/R3/R3X on the passenger side, or "curbside". For our particular needs, the driver side is better, but we can make the passenger side work.

There are many issues affecting the location of the charging port and RJ explained in some of the podcast interviews following the R2 launch that one reason for their choice was to shorten the high voltage cabling for their variant with 1-motor in the rear - by placing the port in the rear costs were reduced.

Another reason RJ and others have given, is to facilitate curbside charging. I was aware of efforts to provide curbside charging in the U.S., which met with mixed success due to the problem of vandalism and cable theft (by copper recyclers?). Curbside charging in large cities has an advantage in that there is often medium voltage power (270V or 480V) already along the street for street lighting. Cities, of course, have many residents that do not own their own garage and are in need of a convenient Level 2 charging opportunity.

There is an interesting podcast posted by Out of Spec Podcast on YouTube entitled "Curbside Charging will help City Drivers!". It's pretty lengthy, but is quite informative in regards to the challenges to EV adoption and the efforts being made in the U.S. and Europe to overcome these challenges. For example, to reduce theft and vandalism, there is a move to a "detachable" charging cord. In Europe, this cord is supplied by EV manufacturers to EV purchasers. Also, to reduce the problems with chargers being "ICE-ed", municipal parking codes are being updated to allow ticketing of vehicles blocking curbside chargers but not using them.

A second podcast published on YouTube by Out of Spec Guide illustrates how Paris is implementing curbside charging, and helped me visualize solutions for our cities in the U.S.

The net result of watching these two podcast, is that I am more comfortable with Rivian's decision to locate the charging port on the passenger side of the vehicle.

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[COdogman]

I think that will be the future of public charging everywhere, not just curbside. Those chargers and the fact the user brings their own cable, would make it much more affordable for businesses to add charging for their customers and employees.

 

[Augsburg]

I think that will be the future of public charging everywhere, not just curbside. Those chargers and the fact the user brings their own cable, would make it much more affordable for businesses to add charging for their customers and employees.

I think you are probably right. I think Tesla had on blinders when they chose the driver's side rear. They assumed everyone would either charge in their garage or at work. Curbside takes into account the many potential EV owners that are not afforded these options. Tesla will need to think about how they set up their charing station.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I see a future where the majority of folks don't own vehicles when they live in urban areas especially. The cost of owning, insuring, and operating a vehicle is huge...especially in urban areas. It will continue to increase over time while the cost of ride share or future robo taxi services will come down.

Once autonomous tech improves I see ride share or robo taxi services taking over. It just makes so much more sense.

It is a feasible arrangement for a fast charging station though where space is limited. Ultimately, fast charging stations where we have pull through islands (much like gas stations are currently) will be the best solution for all vehicle types. It will also account for vehicles that might be towing trailers.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I think you are probably right. I think Tesla had on blinders when they chose the driver's side rear. They assumed everyone would either charge in their garage or at work. Curbside takes into account the many potential EV owners that are not afforded these options. Tesla will need to think about how they set up their charing station.

As far as I know, curbside charging is L1/L2, which means that an extension is a relatively simple, inexpensive, and lightweight solution for the problem of charging when the port isn’t curbside. It’s a problem which can be solved.

In all of these threads extolling the virtues of passenger side charging ports, nobody has been able to propose a solution to the issue I raise regarding L1/L2 charging in tight spaces. A passenger side port almost doubles the width requirements of access space along the side(s) of a vehicle. This is because of using access space on the driver’s side to enter/exit the vehicle AND, to use the charging port, you now need space on both sides.

Here are the constraints of the problem I’m trying to solve:
1. There must be enough space on the driver’s side to allow the driver to open their door wide enough to exit the vehicle since it is unreasonable to expect people to climb over a center console to exit.
2. There must be enough space on the charge port side to access the charge port allow for the charger handle with cable to be placed into the port.

I guess a vehicle with a bench seat would solve the problem, as would making vehicles below a maximum width. Of course some folks may take issue with sliding across a bench seat every time they want to charge in their garage or tight parking space and other people won’t want a passenger side charge port limiting them to a narrower vehicle.

This is not some edge case: many people in North America have limits on the width available to them in their garage or assigned parking where they’ll charge and they aren’t going to buy an EV designed in such a way that they cannot possibly charge where they park overnight. A longer L1/L2 cable which solves the curbside charging problem doesn’t solve this space constraint problem.

I’m open to solutions, but nobody is proposing solutions to the problem I’m raising.

edit: typo

 

[Augsburg]

As far as I know, curbside charging is L1/L2, which means that an extension is a relatively simple, inexpensive, and lightweight solution for the problem of charging when the port isn’t curbside. It’s a problem which can be solved.

In all of these threads extolling the virtues of passenger side charging ports, nobody has been able to propose a solution to the issue I raise regarding L1/L2 charging in tight spaces. A passenger side port almost doubles the width requirements of access space along the side(s) of a vehicle. This is because of using access space on the driver’s side to enter/exit the vehicle AND, to use the charging port, you now need space on both sides.

Here are the constraints of the problem I’m trying to solve:
1. There must be enough space on the driver’s side to allow the driver to open their door wide enough to exit the vehicle since it is unreasonable to expect people to climb over a center console to exit.
2. There must be enough space on the charge port side to access the charge port allow for the charger handle with cable to be placed into the port.

I guess a vehicle with a bench seat would solve the problem, as would making vehicles below a maximum width. Of course some folks may take issue with sliding across a bench seat every time they want to charge in their garage or tight parking space and other people won’t want a passenger side charge port limiting them to a narrower vehicle.

This is not some edge case: many people in North America have limits on the width available to them in their garage or assigned parking where they’ll charge and they aren’t going to buy an EV designed in such a way that they cannot possibly charge where they park overnight. A longer L1/L2 cable which solves the curbside charging problem doesn’t solve this space constraint problem.

I’m open to solutions, but nobody is proposing solutions to the problem I’m raising.

edit: typo

I think the point of curbside charging is all about opening up charging to a multitude of potential EV owners that are without a home garage or they don't commute in a car to work. By including the millions of people in this situation, EV adoption can come faster and be more complete. I liked the solution shown in the Paris video where "curbside" chargers were between the vehicle parking spaces and did not compete for sidewalk space which is a scarce resource in major cities.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I think the point of curbside charging is all about opening up charging to a multitude of potential EV owners that are without a home garage or they don't commute in a car to work. By including the millions of people in this situation, EV adoption can come faster and be more complete. I liked the solution shown in the Paris video where "curbside" chargers were between the vehicle parking spaces and did not compete for sidewalk space which is a scarce resource in major cities.

Right, and I’m all for curbside chargers. I just want to point out that curbside chargers do not REQUIRE curb-side charging ports, and I want to see if anyone has an answer to the yet-to-be-solved problem of non-driver side charging ports, regardless of which absolute side of the vehicle it’s on.

This is an issue which ICE vehicles do not have because there isn’t an expectation that people can refuel in their assigned parking space overnight.

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