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Rivian vs. Cybertruck

Hmp10

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Isn't that what the 90 or 100 in the P100D, 90D stand for??
Tesla has recently dropped that nomenclature. The non-base models are now just referred to as "long range" or "performance" with no reference to battery capacity.
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SlaterGS

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on what basis do we do that?
Because much of the focus I have seen on all the posts have been visual look and safety which has immediately discounted it for many.
I was trying to step away from those two points (one being subjective and the other being speculative and unknown) and to point out how it could still be a legitimate option.
But yes, we have no basis for saying it passes its safety tests aside from the sake of conversation though Tesla has had a good track record and I don't see them missing it here either.

it’s 25% more than rivians range. However this is concept car vs production prototype. So, not really apples to apples.
We need to compare CD and battery capacity, and those aren’t published yet.
but guessing capacities between two trucks are comparable. If CD is what differs, then the towing ranges of the two trucks likely are close. On the order of 150-200 miles
Isn't Rivians also a concept/prototype vehicle at this point?? I truly hope they succeed and take off, but I don't know enough about their president, workforce, and company as a whole to feel confident until they begin delivering them and supporting them, I am waiting with cautious optimism. Tesla on the other hand at least has a track record (good or bad).
My point also being that it's not just the additional range, it's the 6th seat that is valuable to ME and the price at that range doesn't hurt either. A big reason I am saddened that the R1S only can do 7 passengers with the two shorter ranges.
You are correct we need to look at CD and battery capacity, but we don't have the #'s from Tesla nor do I expect to get them for quite some time, but by 2021/2022 I fully expect those #'s to be as stated.


pickups have the form they have as a result of their function as small load haulers. The Tesla Truck is less of a truck, and more of an RV.
By that definition then this should do a fabulous job as a "small load hauler" minus some quirks on the side rails. Does a typical pickup truck with a truck cap become an RV/SUV simply because of the truck cap?

One key spec is missing- the weight specs. With that big cargo rating (3000 lbs +), the big battery and all that stainless, truck may cross the 7501 lb rating that makes it a class C truck. This means semiannual safety checks and additional fees.
Great concern, I wonder where it will fall.

In the end I see plenty of challenges with it, but if conversation would be less around visual looks and safety (which we don't know), and on to questions/concerns like you stated at the end, or true use case challenges that prevent people from buying it, then I think it would be more constructive conversation. It feels like going on an Apple forum that is talking about a new Android phone or vice versa.
Regardless I am excited for more competition!
 

Hmp10

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I will say that I don't think many people who use their trucks for serious work every day (i.e. construction, farming etc) are going to be getting a Rivian for that any more readily than a Tesla.
You may be right that most people who use an ICE pickup for work would be reluctant to switch to an EV version any time soon. However, I see nothing in the Rivian that would make it impractical for everyday work.

I see a lot on the Tesla that would make it impractical: sloped sides on the bed that prevent accessing cargo from the sides; lack of rear headroom for carrying adult work crews; an exotic body alloy that, while more resistant to damage, would be very expensive to repair once damaged; a unibody structure that would make repairs more expensive; and something so damned absurd looking that it would get hooted off most job sites.

My dad was a housing contractor who enjoyed following new technology. If he were alive, he'd be among the first to order a Rivian as a work vehicle. He'd also buy a Tesla family vehicle at the drop of a hat. When it comes to their cybertruck, he'd just erupt into peals of laughter.
 

SlaterGS

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However, I see nothing in the Rivian that would make it impractical for everyday work.
- 4.5' bed will do it for many IMO if we are talking about actual work crews. I don't see either the Cybertruck or R1T being for work crews unfortunately.
 

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Mr_funnypuns

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Isn't Rivians also a concept/prototype vehicle at this point??
Prototype is different than concept. Concepts are for exploration of new ideas. Prototypes are intended for formal testing. Still may be splitting hairs here.

Does a typical pickup truck with a truck cap become an RV/SUV simply because of the truck cap?
No. But this back end isn’t a cap. It’s more like a trunk. Which imho makes it more of a hatchback or SUV. But ultimately the state gets to decide. Not me, and here in IL I suspect that means a class “c” tag + EV plate fee (extra $200) because the truck doesn’t pay a gas tax.

between license and safety inspections call it $400 a year?

also note class c is required to weigh at weigh stations.

Hmm. I need a weight spec. Anyone seen one?


but if conversation would be less around visual looks and safety
nope. These are valid. That’s an ugly truck and the design makes emergency extraction and crash testing a valid point of concern.
 

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Ha! Ha! The comments on here are pretty entertaining. I don't think I could put enough paper bags over my head if I bought and drove that Tesla Truck.

Price, etc. withstanding, let's just look at aesthetics of the two for a second. Absolutely no comparison between the two and in the end, radical change is not always good. If this is in fact what Tesla intends to put out for the truck, it will take the "flop" trophy away from the Pontiac Aztec and from the Ford Edsel, it is just that bad. It will also tarnish Tesla to within an inch of it's life (from cash flow, etc.) because up to this point, the benefit of Tesla over all the other EVs is the Tesla vehicles have style and aesthetics that none of the others possessed. This is such a radical departure from that philosophy, it is just not going to fly. Like McFly in Back to the Future 2, which I am pretty sure this truck would look at home in. Thankfully that Future was erased in their travels.

Sorry but no amount of money or discount, etc. would steer me towards this abomination. It's like they took an 80's Vector and said let's make that into a truck but 1000 times uglier. Not even sure how this made it this far to launch but Elon did use the term Mad Max a number of times in the past and it is definitely something one would see out of those movies.

As far as trucks go, this should push a vast majority of people towards Rivian and maybe the other commercial truck listed above. If you are really listening Rivian, if you get it together quickly on price, you can corner the EV Truck market. Bring those costs down, even on the top model. The more out there, the more it will sell. The early adopters are here, the mass market success will be achieve with the tipping point on production but you can truncate that schedule to mass market success by bringing the costs down. Maybe add the bare bones work truck aspect, complete with hose out rubber liner on the floor and no amenities for an even lower entry model. Not everyone wants all the nannies and gismo's on their truck. Some just want a truck. Haven't seen that model from you.

BTW, Tesla just set Rivian up for the best commercial ever. A Rivian Truck speeding towards a Tesla Truck and using the Tesla Truck like a ramp to jump over all the pick-ups out there today. Jumping over Fords, Rams, Chevs, Toyota's, etc. In my mind, that is all this wedge of cheese Tesla truck is good for, a ramp. Pretty disappointed in Tesla and doesn't bode well for it's future. I do feel this launch will have lasting effects and negative ripples for sometime. Any new launch shows a window into the direction of the company. Unfortunately a broken window for Tesla.
 
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skyote

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Saw an article earlier that the estimate of Tesla truck preorders is ~200K! There's no way all of those will convert, but you can't argue with those types of numbers...I'm sure that's far beyond Rivian preorders to date.
 

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Hmp10

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Remember that it only took $100 to grab a reservation. I suspect a lot of people just plunked that down for a placeholder to see if Tesla comes out with something less bizarre 2+ years hence. If 200,000 of what I saw last night ends up on the road, I'll eat my Model S.
 

skyote

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Remember that it only took $100 to grab a reservation. I suspect a lot of people just plunked that down for a placeholder to see if Tesla comes out with something less bizarre 2+ years hence. If 200,000 of what I saw last night ends up on the road, I'll eat my Model S.
I'm a huge critic, but I plunked down $100 just in case it does become something I want. Rivian won't replace my diesel, and there's a chance a Tesla truck could...
 

SlaterGS

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class “c” tag + EV plate fee (extra $200) because the truck doesn’t pay a gas tax.
What is just the EV plate fee for IL?

nope. These are valid. That’s an ugly truck and the design makes emergency extraction and crash testing a valid point of concern.
I think you are missing my point. They are valid to talk about, but they have both taken over all conversations for many of the forums, articles, etc. that I have read and removed any ability to talk about the other parts of it good or bad. Initial intent of my comment was to ignore these two because they have been beaten to death already and talk about the other things.
Rather than railroad the conversation with those two topics, might as well start a thread specifically on the look or the safety concerns and have other threads specifically for comparison purposes on information we "know" and are again, not subjective.

FYI of the 6 people I have talked to about it at work today, 2 people loved it and have put orders in, 2 people hated it, and 2 people didn't initially like it but have warmed up to it. By that count, then I'd say Tesla is doing pretty good, though I don't exactly like the look myself.
 
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Hmp10

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I'm a huge critic, but I plunked down $100 just in case it does become something I want. Rivian won't replace my diesel, and there's a chance a Tesla truck could...
I don't normally watch Tesla product reveals, as I find them too pretentiously Apple-esque. However, I watched this one last night. I think Tesla is still several years ahead of the competition in total systems integration with EVs, and my brother and I have had great performance and reliability with our Teslas. So, although I want an SUV more than a pickup, I wanted to see if Tesla was introducing a compelling product with good cabin space or maybe even something that would quickly add a truck-based SUV to the Tesla line-up.

What I saw, however, is so very, very far away from anything I would ever put in my garage that I have just become more convinced that, for me at least, Rivian is the way to go.
 

Mr_funnypuns

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What is just the EV plate fee for IL?


I think you are missing my point. They are valid to talk about, but they have both taken over all conversations for many of the forums, articles, etc. that I have read and removed any ability to talk about the other parts of it good or bad. Initial intent of my comment was to ignore these two because they have been beaten to death already and talk about the other things.
Rather than railroad the conversation with those two topics, might as well start a thread specifically on the look or the safety concerns and have other threads specifically for comparison purposes on information we "know" and are again, not subjective.

FYI of the 6 people I have talked to about it at work today, 2 people loved it and have put orders in, 2 people hated it, and 2 people didn't initially like it but have warmed up to it. By that count, then I'd say Tesla is doing pretty good, though I don't exactly like the look myself.
I didn’t miss your point. You want to separate aesthetics and safety from the rest of the conversation because there are other points worth discussing, and they are getting eclipsed, not just here, but across the net. This is, as you know, the market in action. Perhaps the storm will pass, and perhaps not. But for now, the truck appears that it is being rejected by the majority of the market, and the financial markets are judging Tesla for it.

Back away from that body, and you have a very viable truck. With that body, i suspect (but cant prove) you cut your market by a factor of 100
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