Rivian Servicing & Repairs?

Discussion in 'Rivian General Discussions' started by Lil'O Annie, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    #31 Hmp10, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Assuming (1) it's daytime, (2) there is no rain or (3) cloud or (4) tree cover, (5) the panels are angled optimally, (6) bears do not step on the three panels on the ground, (7) you could shave 1500 pounds of weight off the Rivian and (8) give it the aerodynamic drag of a Tesla, this Rube-Goldbergian arrangement might work, at least until (9) a stiff wind came up . . . or (10) you needed to get something out of the vehicle.

    I seriously doubt if anyone at Rivian is thinking about this. What they are thinking about is an auxiliary battery pack.
     
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  2. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    #32 DocTwinkie, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    From what I read the stock issues with the model y have less to do with the model y and the concern the announcement will impact model 3 sales.

    The sedan is dead in america. Ask ford. The model y announcement means you have a year or so before orders come in and probably 2-3 before they are able to mass produce. Now that people know an suv is coming at a reasonable price investors are worries people won’t buy the model 3 (the only thing making Tesla profitable) and will just wait.

    So I’m not sure the model y was necessarily the problem but the perceived impact it will have on the only model keeping Tesla in the black.

    It still wasn’t earth shattering. It’s an suv version of the model 3. But the stock going down is prob cause model 3 sales gonna tank while people wait for the mode y.

    The mic drop for Rivian would be they partner with someone for service AND the cars only options are battery and cosmetic. Aka 10k per 100mi range and they charge for a certain interior/ exterior colors.

    If 69k is a fully loaded 200mi
    79k is fully loaded 300mi
    And 89k is 400mi then they have a shot.

    If the rear outlets, lidar system, leather, adaptive cruise, cross bars, leather, heated/cooled seats, bed cover, etc are all add ons for a few grand each then I just don’t see people dropping that much on a truck beyond a very very niche segment. And niche don’t keep the lights on. They bought a factory that can pump out 220k cars a year.

    I personally think they can do it. They have a lot of super smart folks working on this. They gotta come out swinging.
     
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  3. EyeOnRivian

    EyeOnRivian Well-Known Member

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    I was eager to see what Tesla put together for the Model Y. I was disappointed but not surprised based on what had been reported prior to the unveiling. Now that it has been revealed, for Tesla, and anyone else, to categorize the M-Y an SUV at this point is simply folly. To be honest I barely consider the M-X an SUV. The M-Y AT BEST is a crossover and I think that's being generous. E.g. many youtubers and media who attended the M-Y unveil event had reported it's barely taller than the M-3.

    So one can only hope, now that the M-Y has been unveiled, it can stay out of any comparison to the R1S or any true SUV for that matter.
     
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  4. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    The American-branded ICE sedan does appear to be dead (except for Tesla's Models S and 3). But Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Kia, and Hyundai sedans seem to be holding their own for the time being.

    I think the arrival of electric cars will keep sedans going for a while longer, as that body form offers inherent weight and aerodynamic advantages over SUV's, which will remain important until charging availability and times approach ICE vehicles. Porsche's first entry into the EV market will be a sedan (the Taycan); unless Jaguar is discouraged by the slow sales of its I-Pace, it will bring out the next generation J-class sedan as an EV-only vehicle; Tesla's Model 3 sedan was a huge seller in the U.S. last year (admittedly due, in part, to pent-up demand); Tesla's Model S easily outsells the Model X SUV, and Tesla is working on a next-generation large sedan; Lucid Motors' entry into the market will be with a sedan.
     
  5. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Right. I have a Tesla Model S and the only way in which the car has disappointed has been in the tight rear interior. I have test driven a Model X twice in an attempt to convince myself it would solve the rear seat problem and allow me to give up my trusty Honda Odyssey. The Model X is a mess. Not only does it have such weak torsional rigidity that some windshields have actually cracked (try off-roading with that), the second- and third-row accommodations are a bad joke. I'm 5'8", and my head was almost brushing the glass roof panel. The only way to get enough knee room was to run the second-row seat all the way back, rendering the cramped rear seat unusable for anyone but a toddler.

    For anyone who really wants an electric SUV, I think the Rivian is going to blow Tesla out of the water in that market.
     
  6. binny

    binny Member

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    Upon further thought about my solar panel idea, rather than stacking them up on the roof and carrying them that way, Rivian should design a flexible sort of panel that spools out like a carpet. It could be carried in the bed rear (where the aux. battery is to go). Spool out as much as parking space permits. The roll could be priced according to how much charging capability the customer wants. Theoretically up to 100%, which would be one looooong roll.
     
  7. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Flexible solar panels generally are limited to no more than 30 degrees of flexion, meaning they cannot be rolled up like a rug. Also, because they must be manufactured with different photovoltaic materials than rigid panels, they typically are less efficient, meaning more panel surface is required. Rolling up enough flexible panels on a drum big enough to handle the limit in flexion would require a contraption taller -- and probably heavier -- than the truck.

    Slapping a few solar panels on top of an RV to provide power to run lights and appliances is a far different proposition from providing power to propel a three-ton vehicle at road speeds.

    Rivian has a massive task ahead of them to put two innovative vehicles into production and to set up a service network. I seriously doubt if they're going to be wasting resources by assigning anyone to try to get those vehicles to charge by sunshine any time soon.
     
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  8. binny

    binny Member

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    You're probably right. But after seeing the modular patents, I couldn't help but add to the wish list.
    Where's RJ when I need him? :)
     
  9. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing wrong with daydreaming. I just hope people aren't going to start souring on Rivian right out of the gate because they can't fulfill everyone's wish list. They seem poised to put a couple of very interesting vehicles into the market that already go well beyond what anyone else is attempting.
     
  10. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    I think what they are putting out is phenomenal. My only concern is that when they come to market there will be a bevy of competitors including those from established brands. They will have a harder time than Tesla because Tesla was the only game in town. Rivian certainly has the talent. They are the only ones talking about lidar.

    I guess to me I see cars, trucks, whatever as
    20-30 inexpensive.
    30-50 affordable mainstream
    50-70 expensive
    70-90 ultra luxury
    90+ Who can afford that?

    When Tesla came out they were ultra luxury that offered something no one had seen. Only the leaf with no range was even in the same-ish category.

    When Rivian hits there will be competition in every bracket up there. The 50-70 bracket will be chock full of plug in hybrids as well.

    In my eyes it’ll all come down to how “real” 69k is and how high it goes from there along with the service centers. If they can push a mass market 200k units per year price point they will do well. Rooting for them.
     
  11. PoorPilot

    PoorPilot Well-Known Member

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    RJ made the comment early on (soon after the unveiling) that he was interested in making a portable solar panel that would sit over the bed of the R1T for extremely remote charging. Just FYI.

    Second, I'm 6' and have no problem sitting in the second row of my X. The third row is tight, but perfect for young kids. I've never heard of any X's cracking their windshields due to lack of rigidity either, but I'm not an expert.
     
  12. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Lucid Motors is also planning lidar for the Air sedan, and Faraday Future was going to use it. Musk argues that it is costly without adding information that cannot be gathered with cameras and sensors, so Tesla is reportedly not exploring it. I don't understand the technology enough to have an opinion one way or the other.

    Right now the largest single cost component of EV's is the battery pack. Due to their weight and aerodynamics, Rivians are having to use the biggest ones yet put in consumer vehicles. All other things being equal, that factor alone is going to keep Rivian fairly high up the price ladder for SUV's, at least until kW unit costs come down considerably further.

    I, too, am rooting for them.
     
  13. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    The windshield cracking was reported on the Tesla forums soon after the introduction of the Model X. I haven't heard of any recent incidents, but I no longer follow the Tesla forums closely. I drive a Model S, which feels as rigid as any car I have owned and more so than many. You have to cross a railroad track to get to the Tesla dealership in Dania Beach, Florida. When I drive my Model S over that track, I don't get any cowl shake or squeaking at all. When I have driven the Model X over that same track, I get both.

    I am not saying I could not fit in the Model X back seat. But, short and old as I am, I like to stretch out a bit. I couldn't do it comfortably in the backseat as I can in my Odyssey, or in the backseats of the Mercedes S-classes and BMW 7 series that friends drive. For a vehicle of the exterior dimensions of the Model X and the miniaturization of the drive train that electric motors afford, I was surprised by having to sit so upright with my lower legs kept nearly vertical.
     
  14. binny

    binny Member

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    The outdoor adventure market includes "preppers." Ignore them at your own peril, I say.
    For them a solar powerhouse would be a no-brainer, even dedicating the entire rear bed to achieving such a goal.
    What if the grid goes down? What's the possibility of a rogue attack causing an EMP with utter chaos following? Personally I would like to believe Rivian trucks would be one of the few capable of operating in such a harsh environment.
    Follow the money. Give preppers what they want.
     
  15. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Binny, I don't think you've quite digested the fact that it would take a huge solar array and an extended period of time to put enough range into a three-ton vehicle to do any good, even in ideal conditions. There's a lot of winter weather up your way. Given how much EV range is lost in cold weather and how iffy solar generation becomes in bad weather, the logistics of portable solar charging become even more daunting. If your concern is to stay mobile on short notice in the aftermath of some disaster, you'd be a lot better off hiding a large gasoline storage tank somewhere and carrying the equipment to pump gasoline out of the tanks at abandoned gas stations.

    I doubt if the fate of any EV manufacturers is going to hinge on their ability to serve the prepper market.
     
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