Rivian Servicing & Repairs?

Discussion in 'Rivian General Discussions' started by Lil'O Annie, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. EyeOnRivian

    EyeOnRivian Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, but if Tesla has that great of a product than one could question why you have unresolved (vehicle) issues to begin with. ;) (Sorry, that was too tempting to resist.) I suspect the "issues" are probably not major enough to warrant you slamming the product, it's just the service B.S. you have to deal with.
     
  2. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    I've been on the same Tesla service roller coaster that others describe here. I had two very minor issues with my 2015 Model S in the first couple of months, and both times the service center answered the call immediately and had a service truck at my house within 12 hours to do the repairs right in my garage. (The nearest service center is 100 miles away. Tesla rents a local storage unit to stock frequently-needed parts, so the local service fleet, at least at that time, was able to fix most problems with less hassle than most people have with conventional car dealerships.)

    For the next three and a half years I did not have a single problem -- no maintenance, no oil changes, only tire changes. Then two months ago a battery pack weld cracked and took out the rear drive unit as well. This time the service experience was horrible. I got nothing but voicemails with promises of call backs that did not come for an entire week while I waited. Finally, I remembered I had the cell phone number of one of the mobile guys who repaired my car years earlier. He had transferred to the home power unit but called his contacts and finally got someone to call me back. I then had to wait another week for the mobile guy to come out and assess the issue. He determined the car had to be towed to the service center on the other side of the state. Two weeks had passed before anyone at Tesla put eyes on the car.

    At the service center, they had to replace a good part of the bottom end of the car: the battery pack, the rear inverter, and the rear motor. At least the repair and towing was covered by warranty, but the whole process had the car out of service for a month. (In the process my P85D was converted to a P90D -- they even changed the badge on the car -- and I have a new, larger battery pack on a 4-year-old car and a later-generation rear motor. My guess is this would have been a $12-15,000 repair without warranty coverage.)

    I love the Tesla (except for the back seat), but I would never own one beyond the warranty period. I have to admit, though, that applies to the German cars I have owned, too. The most trouble-ridden car I ever owned (other than a 1997 Corvette piece of junk) was a 2004 Mercedes SL55. I've also had three Audi R-8s. They were problem free, but the second one got sideswiped by someone who changed lanes on me. The car was in the shop for almost two months waiting for parts which even the factory did not have in stock, so I traded the car in that condition to the dealer for another R8 he had on the lot.

    By the standards of those cars, the Tesla is relatively problem-free and has spent no more time waiting for parts than any other low-volume car.
     
  3. Rivian1

    Rivian1 Member

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    Oh man. What a terrible experience. Let's hope Rivian is taking notes on this and will provide a world class service experience for its customers.
     
  4. PoorPilot

    PoorPilot Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone has had a bad experience with the Tesla service. My experience has been top notch since the day I placed an order online, through delivery, and now a year into ownership.
     
  5. Alan Burns

    Alan Burns Well-Known Member

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    I sent Rivian an email a couple of months ago to try to work with NAPA auto parts chain of stores to stock common parts which might wear out and could be replaced by owners and small town mechanics. The NAPA chain stores are common across the west and are found in smaller communities than other parts chains. One reason for this is their inventory of farm machinery parts. That way ranchers can drive into town for parts, do their own repairs and be back into production. Otherwise they might need to round trip across 2 counties and lose one or two days production to get to the machinery dealer for the part. If the local NAPA store doesn't have the part they might be able to overnight it if there is bus service.
     
  6. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    #26 DocTwinkie, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Rivian so far has done everything right. But there’s a lot left to do. I preordered but am 50/50 I will cancel. I’m going to the New York event in April.

    To me it comes down to competition and the market. Rivian was conceived when the only competition was Tesla (S, X), the leaf, and the volt. You had an insanely priced Tesla or cheap subcompact to choose from.

    That door is blowing wide open. You have offerings of over 200mi at 30k or under in the Kona and Niro. You have luxury coming with the Audi and Jag. All these have well established service. On top of that you now have the model Y announced which tops out where the R1T price tag STARTS. In the SUV segment there are a ton of options and I haven’t even mentioned plug ins. Most folks can get back and forth to work purely on electric with a plug in hybrid like an XC90 or the upcoming Lincoln Avitor while having gas backup for long hauls. All cheaper than the Rivian and with established service. Even the Wrangler has its plug in hybrid going into production in just a few months.

    The Rivian is a truck yes but I think most luxury seekers will ultimately want an SUV. Trucks are for work and a blue collar worker can get a well equipped truck for 40k. The most expensive trucks fully equipped are 60-70k, where the Rivian starts.

    So service will be a huge deal as will final pricing. The model X came out with a fully loaded price twice it’s base. If the 69k R1T ends up being the equivalent of the 35k Model 3 that doesn’t see the light of day for years and the R1T shown at the auto shows is in reality a 120k truck they are in serious jeopardy. The model S/X don’t drive 200k units a year. The 50k model 3 does.

    I’m looking at:
    Rivian R1T. Everything I want, but at what price, reliability, service, and resale.

    Wrangler Plug in. More off reading, price tops at 60k and available lifetime warranty. Excellent resale. Won’t have self driving. To me this is probably the most “responsible” choice due to driving electric for a reasonable price fully loaded while having excellent resale.

    Aviator plug in. On par luxury. Less off roading. Poor resale. Tops around 70s I think for Black Label. Driving off the lot kiss over half the value goodbye. Terrible depreciation.

    Model Y. Tops at 70k for loaded performance. Less off road. Less range but access to super chargers. Service is sketchy but brand is established. Gotta pray you don’t need service and if you do you’re one of the lucky ones.

    Running my Volvo into the ground. Lol.

    I’d add that Rivian seems to be following the Model S marketing plan. Come out with the Uber luxury model for early adopters of the tech first. That worked for the Model S because there was no cheaper alternative without going so cheap you bought a leaf (which I believe outsells the S). But now you have options... I think that model Y announcement cost them a few R1S preorders.
     
  7. binny

    binny Member

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    #27 binny, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    I guess we're the first generation in 100 years to experience buying a new-fangled "automobile" without having a clue how it's supposed to be repaired! Back then I bet owners pretty much assumed the responsibility of doing it themselves.
    I suppose a lot of us are wavering between Tesla's upcoming pick-up and Rivian's. Will it then be a choice between "some" service stations in place vs. "no" service?
    We are pioneers in every sense of the word. I pre-ordered because (1) I've never owned a pick-up and so why not? (2) I want a vehicle I actually have to "step up" into (3) I'm into the outdoors but I'm also 66 with a bad back, unlikely to be 4-wheeling a $90K investment across raging streams but it would be cool to know I have that option.
    What would convince me beyond a doubt about Rivian would be a built-in (modular) solar panel array. Think of it....a stack of about 4 hinged panels riding on the roof. When you stop, one flips forward over the windshield (dual purpose), one remains on the roof, and the other two flip down over the bed.
    Could that be enough panels to actually achieve significant (not the paltry 10% other solar car panels struggle to offer) recharging? Anyone here able to do the math?
     
  8. binny

    binny Member

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    I'm sure you read about Tesla's stock going down after the announcement. It was an underwhelming presentation. Almost embarrassing how unimpressed the crowd was when they unveiled the Y. Even Elon seems disengaged about the Y.
    Everyone in this forum is waiting for Tesla's pick-up. But if we're reserved about the Rivian's unconventional headlight system, we can forget about the "blade runner" look winning us over!
     
  9. EyeOnRivian

    EyeOnRivian Well-Known Member

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    Considering the cost, weight, energy output, and aerodynamics, the technology just isn't there yet let alone for mainstream EV production. There are plenty of sources on the internet that have done some math or least provided some numbers you could extrapolate from. Here's one random example pondering the number of solar panels needed to power a home EV charging port:

    "A typical, 250 watt solar panel will produce around 30-42.5 kWh of AC per month. To be safe, let's take the minimum to give us a conservative estimate.
    If one, low-end solar panel can produce approximately 1 kWh a day of AC electricity, that means you would need an astounding 75 solar panels to produce enough electricity to fuel your Tesla Model S to 100% capacity from 0% each day.
    Luckily, the average driver travels 37 miles per day, which translates to about 12 kWh of electricity. So, a more realistic number would be 12 solar panels. Remember, this is also a conservative estimate, so if your solar panels are high efficiency, the number of panels may drop even lower. Also, if you drive less than 30 miles per day, the number of required panels will decrease drastically.
    "
    Source: https://blog.pickmysolar.com/how-many-solar-panels-does-it-take-to-fuel-an-electric-car

    I believe I even watched an interview where RJ Scaringe where he was asked about solar panels on a vehicle. His response was something like you would need to pull a trailer full of solar panels ... implying even if you covered the entire vehicle in solar panels it would not be enough to get a reasonable charge over a reasonable amount of time.
     
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  10. binny

    binny Member

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    Very interesting. The blogger also wrote about the Model 3 here: https://blog.pickmysolar.com/cost-to-charge-a-tesla-model-3-with-solar-vs.-socal-edison
    Something on the order of 10 panels. Assuming that efficiency keeps increasing each year, along with decreasing weight...it seems doable.
    A stack of 10 one-inch thick panels on Rivian's roof in a break-out aerodynamic container. (Or they could all be carried in the bed without any air resistance at all.) All articulated to fold out with, say, the first one ending on the front hood, second on the windshield, third panel on the roof, fourth over the rear window, fifth and sixth on the bed, seventh over the tail gate, then (it gets dicey here depending on where you've parked), numbers eight, nine and ten on the ground behind the vehicle.
    At home or when camping, this would be possible.
    Surely someone at Rivian is thinking about this.
     
  11. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    #31 Hmp10, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Assuming (1) it's daytime, (2) there is no rain or (3) cloud or (4) tree cover, (5) the panels are angled optimally, (6) bears do not step on the three panels on the ground, (7) you could shave 1500 pounds of weight off the Rivian and (8) give it the aerodynamic drag of a Tesla, this Rube-Goldbergian arrangement might work, at least until (9) a stiff wind came up . . . or (10) you needed to get something out of the vehicle.

    I seriously doubt if anyone at Rivian is thinking about this. What they are thinking about is an auxiliary battery pack.
     
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  12. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    #32 DocTwinkie, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    From what I read the stock issues with the model y have less to do with the model y and the concern the announcement will impact model 3 sales.

    The sedan is dead in america. Ask ford. The model y announcement means you have a year or so before orders come in and probably 2-3 before they are able to mass produce. Now that people know an suv is coming at a reasonable price investors are worries people won’t buy the model 3 (the only thing making Tesla profitable) and will just wait.

    So I’m not sure the model y was necessarily the problem but the perceived impact it will have on the only model keeping Tesla in the black.

    It still wasn’t earth shattering. It’s an suv version of the model 3. But the stock going down is prob cause model 3 sales gonna tank while people wait for the mode y.

    The mic drop for Rivian would be they partner with someone for service AND the cars only options are battery and cosmetic. Aka 10k per 100mi range and they charge for a certain interior/ exterior colors.

    If 69k is a fully loaded 200mi
    79k is fully loaded 300mi
    And 89k is 400mi then they have a shot.

    If the rear outlets, lidar system, leather, adaptive cruise, cross bars, leather, heated/cooled seats, bed cover, etc are all add ons for a few grand each then I just don’t see people dropping that much on a truck beyond a very very niche segment. And niche don’t keep the lights on. They bought a factory that can pump out 220k cars a year.

    I personally think they can do it. They have a lot of super smart folks working on this. They gotta come out swinging.
     
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  13. EyeOnRivian

    EyeOnRivian Well-Known Member

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    I was eager to see what Tesla put together for the Model Y. I was disappointed but not surprised based on what had been reported prior to the unveiling. Now that it has been revealed, for Tesla, and anyone else, to categorize the M-Y an SUV at this point is simply folly. To be honest I barely consider the M-X an SUV. The M-Y AT BEST is a crossover and I think that's being generous. E.g. many youtubers and media who attended the M-Y unveil event had reported it's barely taller than the M-3.

    So one can only hope, now that the M-Y has been unveiled, it can stay out of any comparison to the R1S or any true SUV for that matter.
     
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  14. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    The American-branded ICE sedan does appear to be dead (except for Tesla's Models S and 3). But Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Kia, and Hyundai sedans seem to be holding their own for the time being.

    I think the arrival of electric cars will keep sedans going for a while longer, as that body form offers inherent weight and aerodynamic advantages over SUV's, which will remain important until charging availability and times approach ICE vehicles. Porsche's first entry into the EV market will be a sedan (the Taycan); unless Jaguar is discouraged by the slow sales of its I-Pace, it will bring out the next generation J-class sedan as an EV-only vehicle; Tesla's Model 3 sedan was a huge seller in the U.S. last year (admittedly due, in part, to pent-up demand); Tesla's Model S easily outsells the Model X SUV, and Tesla is working on a next-generation large sedan; Lucid Motors' entry into the market will be with a sedan.
     
  15. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Right. I have a Tesla Model S and the only way in which the car has disappointed has been in the tight rear interior. I have test driven a Model X twice in an attempt to convince myself it would solve the rear seat problem and allow me to give up my trusty Honda Odyssey. The Model X is a mess. Not only does it have such weak torsional rigidity that some windshields have actually cracked (try off-roading with that), the second- and third-row accommodations are a bad joke. I'm 5'8", and my head was almost brushing the glass roof panel. The only way to get enough knee room was to run the second-row seat all the way back, rendering the cramped rear seat unusable for anyone but a toddler.

    For anyone who really wants an electric SUV, I think the Rivian is going to blow Tesla out of the water in that market.
     
  16. binny

    binny Member

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    Upon further thought about my solar panel idea, rather than stacking them up on the roof and carrying them that way, Rivian should design a flexible sort of panel that spools out like a carpet. It could be carried in the bed rear (where the aux. battery is to go). Spool out as much as parking space permits. The roll could be priced according to how much charging capability the customer wants. Theoretically up to 100%, which would be one looooong roll.
     
  17. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    Flexible solar panels generally are limited to no more than 30 degrees of flexion, meaning they cannot be rolled up like a rug. Also, because they must be manufactured with different photovoltaic materials than rigid panels, they typically are less efficient, meaning more panel surface is required. Rolling up enough flexible panels on a drum big enough to handle the limit in flexion would require a contraption taller -- and probably heavier -- than the truck.

    Slapping a few solar panels on top of an RV to provide power to run lights and appliances is a far different proposition from providing power to propel a three-ton vehicle at road speeds.

    Rivian has a massive task ahead of them to put two innovative vehicles into production and to set up a service network. I seriously doubt if they're going to be wasting resources by assigning anyone to try to get those vehicles to charge by sunshine any time soon.
     
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  18. binny

    binny Member

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    You're probably right. But after seeing the modular patents, I couldn't help but add to the wish list.
    Where's RJ when I need him? :)
     
  19. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    There's nothing wrong with daydreaming. I just hope people aren't going to start souring on Rivian right out of the gate because they can't fulfill everyone's wish list. They seem poised to put a couple of very interesting vehicles into the market that already go well beyond what anyone else is attempting.
     
  20. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    I think what they are putting out is phenomenal. My only concern is that when they come to market there will be a bevy of competitors including those from established brands. They will have a harder time than Tesla because Tesla was the only game in town. Rivian certainly has the talent. They are the only ones talking about lidar.

    I guess to me I see cars, trucks, whatever as
    20-30 inexpensive.
    30-50 affordable mainstream
    50-70 expensive
    70-90 ultra luxury
    90+ Who can afford that?

    When Tesla came out they were ultra luxury that offered something no one had seen. Only the leaf with no range was even in the same-ish category.

    When Rivian hits there will be competition in every bracket up there. The 50-70 bracket will be chock full of plug in hybrids as well.

    In my eyes it’ll all come down to how “real” 69k is and how high it goes from there along with the service centers. If they can push a mass market 200k units per year price point they will do well. Rooting for them.
     

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