R1T $69,000 starting price - opinions

Discussion in 'Ordering, Pricing, Delivery' started by RivMan, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    If you get a $20000 less expensive comparable vehicle that gets 20mpg, and you drive 20,000 miles a year, you are going to spend $250 a month on gas.
     
  2. skyote

    skyote Well-Known Member

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    #62 skyote, Apr 30, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
    So you're saying rough payoff period of 7-8 years or around 150K miles (without considering NPV).
     
  3. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    With payments, it is about a wash.
     
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  4. GJMOH

    GJMOH Member

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    I think you have to factor in the maintenance expense savings. If I can configure my RT1 order within 5 digits I’ll be happy.
     
  5. cc84

    cc84 New Member

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    Starting at $69,000 and this is telling the Rivian folks there are people willing to pay $99,999 for their vehicle, with added accessories of course. They gonna be happy happy! Actually I'm a bit jealous. I can afford to pay that, but my mind won't allow me too. It's a struggle for me to justify $69,000, but I'm old and it's now or never, for $69,000 that is.....I do hope no one tries to outbid this 5 digit quote, otherwise I may as well get my refund, but at least it would move someone further up the line.......Please don't give Rivian any ideas as to what they can charge and get away with, unless someone wants to narrow the field and eliminate potential buyers. I would be surprised if Rivian doesn't follow this post, to see what people are willing to pay.
     
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  6. skyote

    skyote Well-Known Member

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    cc84,
    From what I've seen with Rivian, I doubt they would modify pricing based on a forum. They're already at the high end & have probably done a lot of due dilligence & business/market analysis before they set pricing to begin with.

    Other manufacturers will have lower & higher cost BEV options, and at least Ford will have a vehicle based on their skateboard.

    The price is a stretch for me too, and I believe for many others as well, so hopefully the additional options & battery capacities are competitive with the market...I expect they will be.
     
  7. cc84

    cc84 New Member

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    No doubt you're correct skyote and hopefully you are. But....if they don't monitor this forum, then they're missing out on good ideas that are posted here, from their future customers....and, if by some chance they are monitoring, then they're either laughing at what people will pay for their product, or seriously taking note. Give the customer what they want. If we're willing to pay that much for it, hey, I bet they can help us out. As far as I know, they don't have pricing set for the mid/high models going to production. I suspect they'll see what their actual cost is and what the market will bear at the time, or maybe not. They don't have competition as of yet, but may by their production date. Either way, I had rather give the impression of needing a lower cost, which is true for me. No way would I consider $100,000, but I may not be the customer they have in mind.
     
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  8. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    Lol. This made me laugh. As I’ve said I keep bouncing. If I ignore the price this seems like a no brained car that I’d have for a looong time.

    But paying 100k for a car... That’s less money going into retirement. Less money to put away for the kid’s school. Less money to go on trips and use the thing.

    It would be a strain and at the end of the day if I got a Jeep I’d have 50k left over for all the vacations I’d take with it.

    Cars in general are the poorest investment you can make. They have massive depreciation off the bat and luxury are the worst. I mean if you can write s check for this thing and you’re bank account barely notices go for it. But I just wonder how responsible it is for my family to spend that much on something that will lose half its value in 5years. Keeping in mind that the battery size of this thing actually makes it worse for the environment than the Jeep in my state.

    I initially thought the fleet sales and tech sales to ford might bring costs down but in reality from a business perspective they will likely only increase prices. They can make the bulk of their cash through fleet and tech deals while using the Rivian brand as a tech showcase for the very niche elite. As they see they have a revenue stream beyond these two cars then their success is less dependent on high volume Rivian sales and they can be more like a supercar where they sell very few at high price for large profit per unit (but low volume). Almost like Lamborghini selling low volume showcase pieces but the real income is from leasing the tech and building fleet trucks for amazon.


    Ya know I could actually buy a Jeep AND a leaf for cheaper. Hahaha. And the leaf with the smaller battery would be more environmentally friendly.
     
  9. THOR

    THOR Member

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    [QUOTE="DocTwinkie, ... Keeping in mind that the battery size of this thing actually makes it worse for the environment than the Jeep in my state. ...

    Ya know I could actually buy a Jeep AND a leaf for cheaper. Hahaha. And the leaf with the smaller battery would be more environmentally friendly.[/QUOTE]


    Do you have anything that supports your claim about the environmental impact of a comparable truck? What I have heard sounds like the opposite of what you claim.
    see: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions#.VkSdDrerSUk
     
  10. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    Do you have anything that supports your claim about the environmental impact of a comparable truck? What I have heard sounds like the opposite of what you claim.
    see: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions#.VkSdDrerSUk[/QUOTE]



    An EV requires a larger carbon footprint to produce. The larger the battery. The larger the footprint. Having the largest batteries ever made these will likely be the largest production carbon footprint models ever made.

    Now over the life of the vehicle they create far less carbon emissions during their use. However this is largely dependent on your region. In California where the plug your charging from is largely renewable that emission generated by use is extremely low whereas the Midwest (where I live) it’s all coal baby (good ol Midwest ignorance).

    So when an EV starts its life it has a higher environmental impact than a comparable ICE (outlined in your article). It’s over time that this is offset by the electric efficiency. That time could be a year or so for a tiny battery in an efficient state or over 10years for a larger battery in an inefficient state (mine).

    Given these are the largest batteries ever produced in a car I imagine I would have to drive this thing for over a decade before I’ve become carbon neutral with an ICE and started going carbon negative after.

    Now I’m not saying at all you’re terrible on the environment for buying these. Depending on the state and your driving habits and how long you own it it will eventually be better for a lot of people. It will also promote more EV infrastructure and perhaps awareness to clean up the grid. But I am saying that if you were really trying to be green you’d get a small range EV. The people that can drop 100k on their Uber luxury toy probably are gonna want a new toy before a decade or so. Which means more production co2.
     
  11. DocTwinkie

    DocTwinkie Well-Known Member

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    #71 DocTwinkie, May 4, 2019
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
    This is the tool from the site you quoted above. It’s a model x so a much smaller battery. It does not take into account the production co2.

    A model x in my area gets 40+mpg equivalent. Actually a bit worse than a very efficient small conventional hybrid and a lot worse than a plug in hybrid (so the new Jeep plug in wrangler might actually be the most environmentally friendly car I can buy in my area which is kinda funny).

    It would take me well over a decade driving. Model X to offset the production co2 compared to a regular ice vehicle here. And it would never offset the production co2 of a regular Prius or a plug in hybrid.

    So I did some more searching. A 100kwh Tesla battery is estimated to drop 17.5 tons of co2 emissions in production compared to about 6 tons for a midsize ICE.

    Now this thing save 130ish GRAMS of co2 per mile.
    Okay. So by my math which admittedly is probably terrible here. I converted tons to grams and subtracted the 6 ton from the 17.5 ton. Then divided that by 130ish grams per mile to see how long until this equaled out the difference. I’m getting roughly 806k miles. So 40years of driving 20k miles a year to break even. That’s a 100kwh battery. For the 180kwh that will be even less efficient in use I will be long dead by the time I break even assuming my grid doesn’t clean up. Now I am using the co2 of a very efficient gas engine here buyback even if I double the co2 output of the gas engine meaning a 15mph car it’s over 10 years to even out with 100kwh battery. For the 180kwh you can probably just double that to 20years to even out with a 15mpg car. Save the planet this does not.

    A smaller battery that produced under 10k tons in production and had higher efficiency in a smaller car would take a few years.

    7945329C-2116-42E5-B223-8F53A0B101A2.png

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  12. CappyJax

    CappyJax Well-Known Member

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    You should see what impact your diet has on the environment. It makes any efforts in every other area pal in comparison.

    I plan to be 100% solar in two years. 6,000 watts of solar will provide about 60 miles a day to the Rivian. More than enough for most people.

    But I am also vegan, so that reduces my carbon footprint more than anything.
     
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  13. azjohnny

    azjohnny Active Member

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    So a lot of numbers get thrown around that making the batteries causes CO2 emissions. Has anybody ever seen a report that breaks down how the numbers came to be. For all we know somebody just posted the numbers and everybody just parrots the info on the net
     
  14. JeffOutWest

    JeffOutWest Member

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    To be honest, I think it's great to see long term economic trends that improve the environment, and I suspect over time BEVs will help with this, but I find the products compelling for different reasons - a 0-60mph in 3seconds truck with >14" of ground clearance and instant 750hp and ~1000ft-lb of torque is just cool, and all the other innovative features are neat, and really useful. Very cool looking product.
     
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  15. EyeOnRivian

    EyeOnRivian Well-Known Member

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    Doc, you can reach carbon neutral sooner. Avoid that coal and install solar panels like CappyJax to charge your large battery pack EV. :) Oh, wait, then we have to do the analysis on how much of a carbon footprint there is to produce all those solar panels. :headbang: :facepalm: (To be clear, I'm not criticizing, just a little tongue-in-cheek fun.)
     
  16. DanteCip

    DanteCip New Member

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    Hi sir, I appreciate the response and I understand what you are saying completely. I do apologize for the crudeness, but I admit I only say it because I happen to be a pretentious douchebag myself! I believe I may have gotten lost in a ramble however, my main point was less that the price seemed ridiculous and more that the price may put the company at a disadvantage. Obviously from a general motor vehicle perspective as far as EV’s are concerned the price is fair and competitive for a new company, my concern lies within the sub genre or category of lifestyle and consumer that Rivian is currently appealing attempting to appeal to. Which they are very successful at might I add. In the market of adventure branded trucks, 70$ is steep and what I am mainly trying to draw attention to is that if there is any room on that price it might be worth considering lowering it. Maybe even offer a model with a battery with less power because to be honest if I could go 0- 60 in the amount of time that Rivian provides, all of my “adventure” gear and items stored in the bed are not going to have a fun time.
    - Dante
     
  17. Hmp10

    Hmp10 Well-Known Member

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    This from a 2016 "Forbes" article:

    "The Union of Concerned Scientists did the best and most rigorous assessment of the carbon footprint of Tesla's and other electric vehicles vs internal combustion vehicles including hybrids. They found that the manufacturing of a full-sized Tesla Model S rear-wheel drive car with an 85 KWH battery was equivalent to a full-sized internal combustion car except for the battery, which added 15% or one metric ton of CO2 emissions to the total manufacturing.

    However, they found that this was trivial compared to the emissions avoided due to not burning fossil fuels to move the car. Before anyone says "But electricity is generated from coal!", they took that into account too, and it's included in the 53% overall reduction."
     
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  18. Feathermerchant

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    Has anyone looked at the impact of making the gasoline that is burned? Exploration, drilling, finishing, pumping, transporting (oil), refining, transporting (gasoline), pumping. It all adds up.
     
  19. THOR

    THOR Member

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    yes.
    that is all cooked into the union of concerned scientist thing and most folks (well the honest ones) add that cost to ICE.
     
  20. cllc

    cllc Member

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    #80 cllc, May 17, 2019
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    How about all the worn out ICE and deisel blowing smoke and oil all over kingdom come because they can't afford to fix or get a new car.Or are to cheep to care. The numbers are not a real representation of whats really happening out there. Those numbers are from brand new motors and don't account for wear and tear.After 100,000 miles and they continue run them to 200,000 and more because they still run and burn a quart of oil every 1,000 miles. oils cheap, burn anti freeze. Those numbers don't include any of that.
     

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