Possibly More Range...??

[jimcgov3]

I'm sure most have seen this video that was posted after the event in Normal. At the 3:14 mark, Patrick said something that caught my attention.



He states, "We get 400 miles of range, maybe a touch more than 400 when it comes out."

Maybe I'm reading into this but Tesla has proven that they can increase range with incremental software updates. They just increased the range of the 3 by 10 miles or 4.1%. If Rivian could ring out a 4.1% increase in range, that's over 16 additional miles in the 180 pack, 12.5 in the 135, and 9.5 miles in the 105 for the R1T. Obviously those numbers are slightly higher in the R1S. Fingers crossed they shoot for a 5% minimum bump in range.

One of Rivian's favorites sayings...

"We'd rather under promise and over deliver."

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[Godawgs]

I'm sure most have seen this video that was posted after the event in Normal. At the 3:14 mark, Patrick said something that caught my attention.



He states, "We get 400 miles of range, maybe a touch more than 400 when it comes out."

Maybe I'm reading into this but Tesla has proven that they can increase range with incremental software updates. They just increased the range of the 3 by 10 miles or 4.1%. If Rivian could ring out a 4.1% increase in range, that's over 16 additional miles in the 180 pack, 12.5 in the 135, and 9.5 miles in the 105 for the R1T. Obviously those numbers are slightly higher in the R1S. Fingers crossed they shoot for a 5% minimum bump in range.

One of Rivian's favorites sayings...

"We'd rather under promise and over deliver."

FWIW... At the Atlanta event I asked RJ if they were on track to make deliveries in Q4 '20 and he asked what variation I planned on ordering. I told him the R1T 135kWh and he said that battery pack will get 325 - 327 miles on a full charge. He also told me not to expect delivery of it until Q1 '21 (i placed my deposit in Dec '18)

 

[jimcgov3]

FWIW... At the Atlanta event I asked RJ if they were on track to make deliveries in Q4 '20 and he asked what variation I planned on ordering. I told him the R1T 135kWh and he said that battery pack will get 325 - 327 miles on a full charge. He also told me not to expect delivery of it until Q1 '21 (i placed my deposit in Dec '18)

That would be sweet if they were able to ring out that much more range on any of the packs. I find a 9% bump in range to be extreme but like I said, they under promise and over deliver. Time will tell.

When you pre-ordered is only a portion of what differentiates the delivery of your R1T placed in December vs. the delivery of my R1T that we pre-ordered in April. If either of our configurations meets the criteria of "Build It Now" then we will see our trucks before those who pre-ordered on 26 November but only want the 105 with ZERO additional boxes checked.

 

[skyote]

@Godawgs , I think I remember you posting this before, and it also is based on ordering the street tires, right?

 

[Godawgs]

@Godawgs , I think I remember you posting this before, and it also is based on ordering the street tires, right?

That's correct. That's what I told him I'd planned on ordering but I'm not sure if that was or wasn't a variable he considered before giving a date.

 

[skyote]

That's correct. That's what I told him I'd planned on ordering but I'm not sure if that was or wasn't a variable he considered before giving a date.

I was thinking more range than date. And I'm curious what the expected range difference will be with the all terrain tires.

 

[Godawgs]

Ahh! Makes sense.

 

[jimcgov3]

I was thinking more range than date. And I'm curious what the expected range difference will be with the all terrain tires.

Quick numbers.

The tires have a weight difference of exactly 60lbs. The A/Ts weigh 57 per and the A/Ss weigh 42. I do not know how much the rims weigh, depending on which you get will make up some difference or possibly add to.

I can't imagine more than 90 total lbs. I also don't see 90-100lbs making that much off a difference.

Are there some smarter people than I that could help us tile this out?

 

[Hmp10]

What are the brands and sizes of the tires that will be offered? I checked the highly-rated Michelin Premier LTX All Season tire and found it weighs 37 pounds in the 275/50/R22 size.

However, once the wheel is rotating, tire and wheel weight won't affect range measurably. I think differences in rolling resistance and section width (if any) between the two tire options would have more impact.

 

[jimcgov3]

New What are the brands and sizes of the tires that will be offered?

I'm basing those numbers off what is being displayed on the show vehicles. For the R1T, it is the Pirelli Scorpion A/T in a 275/65R20 and the R1S is equipped with the Pirelli Scorpion Verde All-Season in a 275/50R22. The tire on the R1S is slightly smaller in height but wider than the R1T.

 

[jimcgov3]

Here are the spec sheets for both tires. R1S on the top and R1T on the bottom.

 

[skyote]

Weight can absolutely make a difference, but I believe rolling resistance is the larger factor here.

 

[skyote]

The all terrain (current R1T tires) are about 36% heavier...

 

[Hmp10]

Weight can absolutely make a difference, but I believe rolling resistance is the larger factor here.

I agree that weight makes a small difference, but I think it's near the point of immeasurability, at least in terms of range. It does take more energy to get the heavier tires rotating, but acceleration constitutes a very small part of driving for most people. Also, the greater rotational energy of the heavier tires is somewhat recovered during regenerative braking. However, I think we're talking very small factors here.

With section width almost identical on the two tire options, I think rolling resistance will be the biggest differentiator for range, and even that might not amount to much. Things such as driving style, weather, and topography are going to be far, far larger variables in range.

I'm a big fan of Tire Rack tests and sometimes read them for fun. Living in south Florida during rainy season puts a real premium on wet performance. The Pirelli tire Rivian is using only got a so-so rating in wet performance, with wet braking in particular noted as a need for improvement. The Michelin A/S tire that fits the Rivian 22" wheel has better performance across the board and was particularly singled out for excellent wet performance.

I'm probably going to swap out whatever tires I get on the R1S for the Michelins -- which, by the way, weigh 5 pounds less than the Pirellis. I wonder if Rivian actually tested the tires or made the decision based on contract pricing.

 

[DucRider]

Any range capacity they give right now is nothing but an estimate. They have to run production spec vehicles (that don't yet exist) thru a set of standardized tests under controlled conditions to determine the range for the Monroney Label. They can derate from the results achieved, but cannot claim more.

The Bolt EV was touted as 200 miles and came in at 238. I would expect Rivian to also give a very conservative estimate prior to the actual tests. Always better to under promise and over deliver, and that philosophy seems to resonate with what we have heard/seen so far.

Any assumption on the tires fitted to production spec vehicles is likely premature at this point. Much of what you see on the show vehicles may be optional and/or used to gauge consumer reaction before finalizing the specs.

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