Good News for Charging Convenience

Discussion in 'Tech: Batteries, Charging, Alternative Energy' started by skyote, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. skyote

    skyote Well-Known Member

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    Lmirafuente and Hmp10 like this.
  2. rconkling

    rconkling Member

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    Good cause they need it.

    Their system sucks.
     
  3. jimcgov3

    jimcgov3 Well-Known Member

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    This can't come soon enough. Luckily I have only used it twice, but being in Florida, I can't imagine having to get out and go through the pain of swiping cards and it not working and having to start over IN THE RAIN. Their customer service though was great when I encountered a problem. First world problem that 90% of all EVSEs do NOT have any type of sun or rain protection.
     
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  4. Feathermerchant

    Feathermerchant Active Member

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    Hmm how original.
    Just like Tesla.
    At least we know it is possible because it works for Tesla very well.
    Maybe it will allow them to reduce their rates a little.
     
  5. Joel

    Joel Well-Known Member

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    The rates need to come down significantly to compete with Tesla rates.
     
  6. Feathermerchant

    Feathermerchant Active Member

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    Maybe that's the problem. Other corporations are so responsive to Wall St that everything has to be a profit center. Tesla has said that Supercharging will never be a profit center. So other corps won't join unless they can make a profit and Tesla probably won't allow that.

    Seeing as any truck will use more WH/mi than a car, having a cheaper source of electricity (Tesla vs others) is a real competitive advantage. I can hardly wait for the Tesla truck reveal.
     
  7. davrow_R1T

    davrow_R1T Active Member

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    Considering R1T watt/hours per mile, isn't ElectryAmerica charging about the equivalent of $4.00 per gallon? Expensive convenience.
     
  8. Feathermerchant

    Feathermerchant Active Member

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    I'm just guessing here that any electric vehicle should be more efficient than the equivalent gas vehicle due to the need for range. Pickups though are pickups and I don't see a really big difference in apparent aerodynamics of the Rivian vs others. So it may be a little less difference between operating it an a gas truck. I think it should be cheaper though when using a reasonable rate for electricity.
     
  9. skyote

    skyote Well-Known Member

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    For most, the majority of charging will be at home. For the other needs, even a high charging price should be largely offset.
     
  10. Feathermerchant

    Feathermerchant Active Member

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    Just drove my Model 3 to Phi and back ~3,000 miles. Supercharging was great. Typically 30-40 min or less per leg. Legs were 135-200 miles. Efficiency was 270-300 Wh/mile.
    We saw 140 kW from the Supercharger or a little more on some stops. Superchargers are rated at 150 kW mostly now. Tesla software can condition the battery enroute to the Supercharger for faster charging. With the truck I'm expecting 50% to 100% consumption increase compared to the Model 3 so fast charging will still take nearly twice as long.
     
  11. Joel

    Joel Well-Known Member

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    Also take a look at current charging for non Tesla. If it’s DC charging it’s 50kw or less. Only major cities and the occasional Walmart has faster via EA.
     
  12. ajdelange

    ajdelange Well-Known Member

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    Whenever this comes up I encourage people to try ABRP which now has models for the Rivian vehicles. It is particularly instructive, especially to Tesla owners, to compare ones favorite trips without the SC's to what the Tesla owner takes for granted.

    That's an important aspect of it. On one I my favorite routes ABRP completely re-routes me in order to get me access to a faster than 50 kW EA charger at a Walmart. If I want to go the way I like to go potential charging times go way up because there are only 50 kW non Tesla chargers along the route I prefer. This definitely pushes one away from Rivian and towards Tesla.
     
  13. davrow_R1T

    davrow_R1T Active Member

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    Unless you are a long time EV driver who thinks 50kw is almost 4 times faster than the 16kw they used for years.

    Yes, SC are the way to go. But not a deal breaker for me.
     
  14. Feathermerchant

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    Just drove our Model 3 Performance form DFW to Phila and back. Superchargers are great. Stopped about 20-40 min at each. Overnight charged at the Hotel.
     
  15. ajdelange

    ajdelange Well-Known Member

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    #15 ajdelange, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019 at 9:01 AM
    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but if it is that the current crop of 50 kW chargers is an improvement over the previous field of 16 kW there is certainly no disagreement there but we are now focused on the present and near future. Several of us are wondering whether tomkeep our Rivian reservations given that the charging picture doesn't really look that much better now than when we put down our $1K. And now, of course, we have the option of the Cybertruck to complicate the calculus. So we do things like play with ABRP to see what driving a Rivian might be like. Road trip charging won't be as good with a Rivian as with a Tesla but most driving isn't road trips - it's around home so one can decide whether the extra inconvenience imposed by not having access to the SC network is sufficient to cause him to cancel his Rivien order and wait for the Cybertruck.

    Forty-five (45%) percent of my fast charging has been done at non-Tesla chargers. The average rate Ive seen from Tesla chargers in 72 kW while he average from non-Tesla chargers (mostly Circuit Electrique) is 36 kW. Thus on any given trip forced to use other than Tesla I would expect double the charging time.

    Whether it is a deal breaker or not will, of course, depend on the individual and where he drives. Having to charge twice as often for half an hour in each of several quaint villages along the northern shore of the Saint Laurent is one thing. Having to charge for an hour and a half at Joyce Kilmer along the eastern shore of the NJTpk is something else but even that is tolerable once in a while I suppose.

    Also plug and play is hardly a factor as far as I am concerned. It's nice, certainly, but having to wave a card isn't a big deal. I did once, however, observe a guy and his wife tearing their Kona apart looking for their CircuitElectrique card. The much bigger factors to my way of thinking are reliability, charging speed and location. Right now the first on the list seems to be the long pole. Presumably that and charging speed will improve as the networks expand. The locations are pretty much, well, cast in concrete and are not as good as the SC locations which tend to be in freeway rest areas or just off freeways though there are certainly non Tesla stations at those places too but they tend to be the lower power ones. The higher power ones seem to be at shopping centres and Walmarts.

    Cost? Did I forget cost? That is a big disadvantage of non-Tesla charging. It will cost me less in fuel to drive my Lexus SUV to our summer place than a Rivian R1T. I expect Rivian will solve this problem by giving free charging to at least their earliesrt customers.
     

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