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Deadfish

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There is a free app 'WiFiMan' by Ubiquiti - It has a Bluetooth scanner. (select discovery at the bottom and then Bluetooth at the top)

Standing 4 ft from the front of the truck, I took 8 readings. Working my way around (clockwise) from direct in front, to front corner, passenger side, back passenger corner etc.

Here are my readings from my new S23: (K - is the Rivian key, and 1-4 is the sensor with the strongest signal (lowest number)


K-77 3-50
K-79 3-48
K-74 1-40
K-72 4-50
K-89 5-50
K-64 4-59
K-44 2-58
K-60 3-58

inside - phone on console - K-70 2-36

I think 45 and lower is considered green (good connection) - only the passenger side was green for me.

As I type this I'm inside about 30 ft from the truck and I'm still getting sensor 1,2,4 and the Key (at -80+)

I also tried my N200 - It was working as a key, but when I went out to test, the truck didn't open. The number seems the same, BUT sensor 2 would not show up at all.


Very curious to find out what others are getting for both people who the PAAK works, and for people it doesn't.

Rivian R1T R1S PAAK (Phone as a Key) - How to test bluetooth strength.  Post numbers if yours works Screenshot_20230617_204916_WiFiman
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yosupitscel

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Samsung S22 owner. I've always struggled with PAAK until the most recent update to 18.0. It's been working extremely well since then. Every now and then it won't detect my phone unless I pull it out of my pocket and wake the screen. But otherwise it's been flawless.

In case it helps you, here are my measurements taken the same way. I didn't have a measuring tape handy so I eyeballed the 4 feet:

PositionPhone KeyStrongest sensor(s)
FrontK-723-32, 1-48
Corner (FR)K-682-43, 3-46
PassengerK-711-40, 2-63
Corner (RR)K-814-35, 2-68
BackK-774-34, 1-67
Corner (RL)K-704-37, 2-70
DriverK-312-48, 3-69
Corner (FL)K-493-40, 2-70

Seems like we're picking up the same sensors in the same locations, although mine might be a little stronger. Hard to tell since I noticed they were fluctuating a bit. The measurements suggest the phone key sensor is on the driver's door since that's the only location where it turned green for me (and you).

I wish I had taken measurements before the 18.0 update when it didn't work at all. I'll let you know if it craps out and anything changes. Good luck.
 
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Interesting that yours are quite a bit better than mine. I'm going to try to test next time I see someone else's Rivian (to remove phone bias). Also, you have a T, I have an S, not sure if that makes a difference.

I'm hoping a few others can run the test.

I'm already on 2023.18.0

This morning, my phone didn't work as a key. This is now 3 different phones I've had issues with. (2 Samsung and a One+). That make me pretty sure it's a Rivian issue, not a phone issue.

Thye all pair up fine - work for a bit, then stop working.
 

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My PAAK has gotten less reliable the last few updates. My phone proximity-unlocks about half the time before I wait a few seconds and start the app... another 20% of the time I get it explicit-unlocked via the app before proximity does it.

What I've found more troubling is that 20% of the time the phone in the cab isn't being recognized to engage the drive, and I have to dig a card out of my wallet and door-swipe it instead.
 

roscko

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Interesting that yours are quite a bit better than mine. I'm going to try to test next time I see someone else's Rivian (to remove phone bias). Also, you have a T, I have an S, not sure if that makes a difference.

I'm hoping a few others can run the test.

I'm already on 2023.18.0

This morning, my phone didn't work as a key. This is now 3 different phones I've had issues with. (2 Samsung and a One+). That make me pretty sure it's a Rivian issue, not a phone issue.

Thye all pair up fine - work for a bit, then stop working.
I also have a Samsung phone - the Samsung Z Flip 4 - and I also have the same issue of PAAK working for a while then not working at all. Rebooting the phone seems to make it work again for a little while, before quitting again after a day or three.

I noticed the same issue between my Samsung Flip and the Tile Bluetooth tags (alternative/competitor for the Apple Tags): my phone would communicate and see some of them initially, then stop working until I rebooted the phone.

I think both problems are attributable to Samsung's Bluetooth implementation. However, I've yet to independently verify this with a different, non-Samsung phone.
 

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WiFiman doesn’t have a Bluetooth option on my iOS device?
 
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WiFiman doesn’t have a Bluetooth option on my iOS device?
you'd have to look for an Apple tool. or Apple may not make the info available. How is your Apple with Paak? I've not heard many complaints from that side.
 

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you'd have to look for an Apple tool. or Apple may not make the info available. How is your Apple with Paak? I've not heard many complaints from that side.
It works pretty much all the time. Occasionally I have to wait a couple of seconds.
 

CaptainX

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you'd have to look for an Apple tool. or Apple may not make the info available. How is your Apple with Paak? I've not heard many complaints from that side.
I have an iPhone and in my short time of ownership of my R1T, it’s been nearly flawless at unlocking the truck. On a couple of occasions it has taken a few seconds to unlock. I’ve had the vehicle for 12 days. It had System 2023.18 installed at delivery.
 

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Your whole testing strategy is flawed because it treats the vehicle as the only factor that affects the Bluetooth signal strength.

In reality, the biggest variable is going to be the phone, specifically in how the phone is oriented relative to the vehicle (not just where it is in relation to the vehicle) and how strong your phone's Bluetooth radio is.

It is absolutely normal for detected Bluetooth signal strength to vary by 10dB or more depending on whether the phone is held flat or held upright, for example, because Bluetooth antennas, especially the flat ones you find in phones, do not receive or transmit equally in all directions.

It is my contention that because it takes a while for a Rivian to wake up from sleep, Rivian software is trying to detect a Bluetooth key as far away as possible so that there is time to wake up and unlock the car before you get there.

Unfortunately, that means setting the detection level very low, which emphasizes the difference in phone types and orientations. Think of it - if the detection level is high, then you would have to be really close to the car for the process to start. Then you would be standing next to the car for seconds waiting for it to wake up. If you set the detection level low, then you can sense the key from far away, but then you ALSO subject yourself to the variabilities of phone orientation, phone signal strength, and even non-uniform reception by the car's antenna. So it's a tradeoff - if you want more uniform response then you have to set the detection level high and make people wait. If you want greater range so people don't wait then you have to set the detection level low and deal with the variability of signal strengths.

This variability can be hidden if you have a touch sensor on the handle, in addition to the Bluetooth. That would allow detection at a long (but still variable) range but the user wouldn't see action until the handle was touched, so the process would *appear* to be instantaneous and uniform.
 

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Deadfish

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Actually, I posted another thread about the process - the handshake and the unlock are 2 separate processes. So there are 3 issues people are having with the PaaK (that I see so far).

My Goal with the testing was just to get some ball park numbers - and it shows that 1 of my Bluetooth could be bad (much lower readings than others). 1 of my test phones can't even see it.
 

NapaJason

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VSG, I’m not following your suggestion that the detection has to be set to low to mitigate phone variabilities? Start the process of detection as far away as possible, do the handshake and then wait to unlock the vehicle when the signal strength reaches a threshold that indicates proximity. That’s Hope the August and Yale Bluetooth locks work.
 

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I just picked up my truck yesterday and the PAAK doesn't link with my phone. All of the other bluetooth iphone-Rivian functions work, but no connection on the phone key. Looking for solutions..
 

HaveBlue

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Samsung fold 3 here and my galaxy buds often connect to BT and play music but the Samsung functions such as active noise cancelling and ambient can't be adjusted because the software says they aren't connected. Maybe ten minutes later it finally realizes.

My point being Samsung has issues in their BT stack.
 

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I just picked up my truck yesterday and the PAAK doesn't link with my phone. All of the other bluetooth iphone-Rivian functions work, but no connection on the phone key. Looking for solutions..
Any luck??
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