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R1S vs. Similar ICE class vehicles (Ex. Yukon)

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SlaterGS

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Tesla's site is supposed to detect what state you're in and show the incentives that apply. Sometimes if it can't detect the state, it defaults to California and you see the extra incentives.
Good call. Just checked a few through my VPN.
CA (San Francisco) = $4,375
Most of the rest = $1,875
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Updated 10/22 with Subaru Ascent and Nissan Pathfinder and fixed Tesla incentive #'s
 

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I was trying to get a rough bead on how big the R1S would look sitting in my garage, so I compared it with the 2018 Honda Odyssey I have, which is at the outside limit of a vehicle I'd care to drive.

The R1S is:

2.3 inches shorter
.33 inches wider
1.66 inches higher

. . . and a beastly 1,373 pounds heavier.

It also got me to thinking what a phenomenal family vehicle Honda (or Rivian) would have if an Odyssey body were put on a Rivian skateboard. The wheelbases of the two vehicles are within 3" of each other.
 
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I was trying to get a rough bead on how big the R1S would look sitting in my garage, so I compared it with the 2018 Honda Odyssey I have, which is at the outside limit of a vehicle I'd care to drive.

The R1S is:

2.3 inches shorter
.33 inches wider
1.66 inches higher

. . . and a beastly 1,373 pounds heavier.

It also got me to thinking what a phenomenal family vehicle Honda (or Rivian) would have if an Odyssey body were put on a Rivian skateboard. The wheelbases of the two vehicles are within 3" or each other.
Yea I like this comparison considering I'll be potentially going from a T&C to the R1S. Not at my computer now, but I'll try to add this comparison at some point as I think it is valuable!
 

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It also got me to thinking what a phenomenal family vehicle Honda (or Rivian) would have if an Odyssey body were put on a Rivian skateboard.
A family adventure [mini]van. Put some all terrain tires on it & roll to soccer practice.

Jokes aside, that would be a great family EV.

On the other hand, I have 3 young children & vow that my family will never own a minivan. Around here, for whatever reason, their drivers are the WORST...I use an abudnace of caution because minivans are always doing the most irritating & dangerous things on the road. Might be child distractions or the local owner/driver profile, but they are terrible.
 
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A family adventure [mini]van. Put some all terrain tires on it & roll to soccer practice.

Jokes aside, that would be a great family EV.

On the other hand, I have 3 young children & vow that my family will never own a minivan. Around here, for whatever reason, their drivers are the WORST...I use an abudnace of caution because minivans are always doing the most irritating & dangerous things on the road. Might be child distractions or the local owner/driver profile, but they are terrible.
I vowed to never have a minivan, but here I am lol
At this stage (Ages 6mo, 2, 5, 7) there is no better option for our family but I will go away from it as soon as a decent option comes up.
Ignoring all other practical reasons, the automatic doors that you can open and close from the drivers seat are the game changer. No concern of kids opening them and slamming them into the adjacent vehicle in the parking lot, or being unable to physically open them (my 5 yr old has trouble with a Nissan Leaf door, she can't come close to opening and closing a suburban door), or jumping out running into the school and forgetting to close the door (I can close from without unbuckling).
If this function was on an SUV that would be great, though the way they open still is not great in parking lots whereas a van you can really be in a tight spot and still get in and out.

FWIW the worst drivers I see around here are the moms driving their kids around in their Yukon XLs, Suburbans, and expeditions.
 

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I suspect texting and cell phone calls have a lot to do with it. It certainly causes a lot of the traffic mayhem here.

Honestly, I used to swear I'd never own a minivan. Then my partner became disabled, and I bought my first one in 2011. I'll never be without one again. The Honda I have is reasonably peppy, surprisingly nimble, and everyone who uses the dreaded sliding doors wonders why more cars don't have them. For carrying six or seven adults who are not midgets they have no equal.
 

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How about the upcoming 2023 Nissan Pathfinder, especially Rock Creek edition versus Rivian R1S:

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/future-concept/pathfinder-rock-creek-edition.html

I have a reservation for Rivian R1S, prior to the price hike. I will very, very likely go through with the purchase. However, my main consideration vis-a-vis *keeping* the Rivian vehicle are as follows:

(1) I really, really do *not* like to "stand out" -- I am a naturally introverted person, and I do not like having a "fancy" expensive vehicle even though on a strictly financial basis I could afford it.
(2) I do not want my children to put value in THINGS, and specifically do not want them to deal with peers making comments say when I drop them off at school.
(3) Even prior to price increases and with the tax credits R1S is EXPENSIVE. I just have a really hard time justifying purchasing a vehicle for anything north of 50K. Especially if I plan to put that 20K to better use, like carefully vetted charities to help with research to fight diseases, world hunger and help refugees such as those from the war in Ukraine. Now I could easily argue that features and value-to-price ratio is worth it versus other electric vehicles on the market, but that is if you value 0-60 acceleration and niceties like fit & finish or features like off-road capability.
(4) To continue this thought, the fit & finish in a Rivian is undoubtedly better but is it 10% better or 20% better than the aforementioned Nissan Pathfinder? Maybe, but after the initial 'honeymoon' phase, am I even going to notice? Also I would use the vehicle to go on some rough gravel roads and maybe tow a small trailer, but I am not doing anything extreme like rock crawling. For my use-case, a slightly beefed-up Pathfinder or even a Honda Passport should be sufficient.
(5) Longer road trips -- last & unfortunately important road-block. Twice or three times a year we go on a family vacation into a way off the grid location, where there is no cell phone signal and certainly no charging stations (think secluded areas of the UP of Michigan or near Hudson Bay, Canada). Now I think I could still work around it with a Rivian, but it's a nuissance.
(6) Cost of repairs, cost of parts, ease of getting service? long term reliability, especially of the battery? It is a new car company, there is just a lot of unknowns.

So at this point, my plan is to still go through with the purchase, but in short order to put up the car for sale likely as an auction to raise funds for a wilderness/eco-preservation charity in the area (befitting the car / brand). Particularly if I can get a 6-7 seater SUV that has some off-road capability and preferably a hybrid option for better MPG rating and under 50K. Nothing currently on the market strikes me, but Nissan Pathfinder, Rock Creek edition comes closest.

Thoughts, comments? Anyone would try to convince me to change my mind -- please put up your arguments.
 

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Can't compare this to large suvs like Tahoe/Expedition size. They have much more cargo space, and are much more roomier.

This would compete with Mid-size suvs. On the cargo side, it would compete with Telluride as it currently has the most cargo space for midsize suvs. Driving/Luxury wise guess it would compete with bmw x7, mercedes GL, Lexus LX, Infiniti Q80
 

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How about the upcoming 2023 Nissan Pathfinder, especially Rock Creek edition versus Rivian R1S:

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/future-concept/pathfinder-rock-creek-edition.html

I have a reservation for Rivian R1S, prior to the price hike. I will very, very likely go through with the purchase. However, my main consideration vis-a-vis *keeping* the Rivian vehicle are as follows:


So at this point, my plan is to still go through with the purchase, but in short order to put up the car for sale likely as an auction to raise funds for a wilderness/eco-preservation charity in the area (befitting the car / brand). Particularly if I can get a 6-7 seater SUV that has some off-road capability and preferably a hybrid option for better MPG rating and under 50K. Nothing currently on the market strikes me, but Nissan Pathfinder, Rock Creek edition comes closest.

Thoughts, comments? Anyone would try to convince me to change my mind -- please put up your arguments.
IMO - Rivian is the most affordable vehicle that checks the boxes.

For me, anything with a gas tank is disqualified from consideration for me going forward. I can't imagine many people who have owned an EV would feel differently. Even if you don't give a S*** about the environment, the drive quality is so much better, and the convenience of re-fueling at home 360 days a year more than offsets any inconvenience on the other 5 days / year that you are road-tripping by at least an order of magnitude.

If you need to transport more than 5 people, then at the moment your only choices for an EV the Tesla Model X or the Rivian R1S. And the Rivian is $50,000 cheaper.
 

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I feel like the Audi Q7 is a better comparison than the Q8. Additionally nothing below 70k should be in the list since if you are cross shopping R1S, Q7, Cayenne, X7 you aren't also looking at a Subaru or Pathfinder.
 

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Maybe I'm the minority here, and maybe I'm one of the few who AGREE with the price hike.

In terms of apples to apples, think of what in the ICE world offers similar performance, off road capability, and semi-luxury? There isn't much.

Mercedes G-series. The G550 or G63 AMG. The latter in the current market is over $200K. It has similar performance numbers and can accommodate off-road tires.

Range Rover SVR. Same.

Those above are far more expensive than the Rivian.

To a lesser extent, the Bronco Raptor and Jeep Wrangler 392 V8 since they are much more utilitarian (less luxurious).

If we're talking pickups, then really only the Lightning, Raptor, and TRX. I don't know the performance specs of the Lightning, but the Raptor is VERY slow compared to anything new now.

A lot of folks try to compare it to the following and I do not think it is in the same league.
- Tesla Model X
- Porsche Cayenne Turbo/Turbo S/Turbo GT
- BMW X5M (incl. Competition)
- Audi RSQ8
- Etc...

While those are fast SUVs (I have a X5M) their large brakes do not accommodate off-road tires and are for on-road only. I also get anywhere from 9-11mpg so that's another thing :p.

I do NOT think vehicles like Yukons, Expeditions, etc are in the same category at all. It is like comparing a Tesla Model S Plaid to a Toyota Camry. They're both sedans, right?
 
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How about the upcoming 2023 Nissan Pathfinder, especially Rock Creek edition versus Rivian R1S:

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/future-concept/pathfinder-rock-creek-edition.html

I have a reservation for Rivian R1S, prior to the price hike. I will very, very likely go through with the purchase. However, my main consideration vis-a-vis *keeping* the Rivian vehicle are as follows:

(1) I really, really do *not* like to "stand out" -- I am a naturally introverted person, and I do not like having a "fancy" expensive vehicle even though on a strictly financial basis I could afford it.
(2) I do not want my children to put value in THINGS, and specifically do not want them to deal with peers making comments say when I drop them off at school.
(3) Even prior to price increases and with the tax credits R1S is EXPENSIVE. I just have a really hard time justifying purchasing a vehicle for anything north of 50K. Especially if I plan to put that 20K to better use, like carefully vetted charities to help with research to fight diseases, world hunger and help refugees such as those from the war in Ukraine. Now I could easily argue that features and value-to-price ratio is worth it versus other electric vehicles on the market, but that is if you value 0-60 acceleration and niceties like fit & finish or features like off-road capability.
(4) To continue this thought, the fit & finish in a Rivian is undoubtedly better but is it 10% better or 20% better than the aforementioned Nissan Pathfinder? Maybe, but after the initial 'honeymoon' phase, am I even going to notice? Also I would use the vehicle to go on some rough gravel roads and maybe tow a small trailer, but I am not doing anything extreme like rock crawling. For my use-case, a slightly beefed-up Pathfinder or even a Honda Passport should be sufficient.
(5) Longer road trips -- last & unfortunately important road-block. Twice or three times a year we go on a family vacation into a way off the grid location, where there is no cell phone signal and certainly no charging stations (think secluded areas of the UP of Michigan or near Hudson Bay, Canada). Now I think I could still work around it with a Rivian, but it's a nuissance.
(6) Cost of repairs, cost of parts, ease of getting service? long term reliability, especially of the battery? It is a new car company, there is just a lot of unknowns.

So at this point, my plan is to still go through with the purchase, but in short order to put up the car for sale likely as an auction to raise funds for a wilderness/eco-preservation charity in the area (befitting the car / brand). Particularly if I can get a 6-7 seater SUV that has some off-road capability and preferably a hybrid option for better MPG rating and under 50K. Nothing currently on the market strikes me, but Nissan Pathfinder, Rock Creek edition comes closest.

Thoughts, comments? Anyone would try to convince me to change my mind -- please put up your arguments.
Ok I'll bite....

1) Rivian stands out only because its unique headlamp configuration and being a "new thing"... Other than that, its just a midsize truck or SUV. Don't know when your planned schedule devilry is but by then, most people probably would not care. As for being an introvert (me too), it really has no baring on the matter, Its how you would treat the vehicle by example that would matter, regardless of make or model.

2) I have no idea how old your kid(s) are but I can almost guarantee that most will not care and won't give your kids any peer pressure. Now if your driving around in Lambo, Aston Martin or Bently SUV, they may notice but even then, its a SUV... Box with wheels. All 3 of our kids didn't care what we drove when they were growing up. Today, (they all drive) they only care that it runs without any problems. They grew up in a household with new cars every 2~3 years, mostly of English and German makes.

3) Clearly you haven't bought a new car in a while. If you care social causes and other charitable issues, why not simply send you resource that way and buy a used Explore or Pathfinder? Both Honda Passport and Toyota Fourunner are perfect appliances that will run just about forever, as long as you change your oil.

4) who says Rivian quality is better than??? Its their claim and just an implied belief and to be determined. In terms of fit and finish, Hondas and Toyotas are probably better than Rivian, given their track record.

5) I have taken long trips (~500 miles each way) on Model 3 and it does take a bit of an advanced planning to make it smooth. Think of it this way its a quirky lifestyle of EV ownership (for now). Or maybe plan a different trip where there are cell signals and kids other things to do...

6) If Tesla is any indication of EVs, total ownership cost will be significantly less than any ICE vehicle. There are plenty of studies that prove this.

It seems like an ordeal to go through all of this just to donate the net proceeds to charities, but that me.... I much rather simply donate and not mix personal beliefs and simple transportation option.

I am not a tree hugger. I like EVs from Direct Sales because net cheaper to own and operate the vehicle.

Not trying to piss you off or anything like that. I just have a very different perspective than of yours...
 

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How about the upcoming 2023 Nissan Pathfinder, especially Rock Creek edition versus Rivian R1S:

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/future-concept/pathfinder-rock-creek-edition.html

I have a reservation for Rivian R1S, prior to the price hike. I will very, very likely go through with the purchase. However, my main consideration vis-a-vis *keeping* the Rivian vehicle are as follows:

(1) I really, really do *not* like to "stand out" -- I am a naturally introverted person, and I do not like having a "fancy" expensive vehicle even though on a strictly financial basis I could afford it.
(2) I do not want my children to put value in THINGS, and specifically do not want them to deal with peers making comments say when I drop them off at school.
(3) Even prior to price increases and with the tax credits R1S is EXPENSIVE. I just have a really hard time justifying purchasing a vehicle for anything north of 50K. Especially if I plan to put that 20K to better use, like carefully vetted charities to help with research to fight diseases, world hunger and help refugees such as those from the war in Ukraine. Now I could easily argue that features and value-to-price ratio is worth it versus other electric vehicles on the market, but that is if you value 0-60 acceleration and niceties like fit & finish or features like off-road capability.
(4) To continue this thought, the fit & finish in a Rivian is undoubtedly better but is it 10% better or 20% better than the aforementioned Nissan Pathfinder? Maybe, but after the initial 'honeymoon' phase, am I even going to notice? Also I would use the vehicle to go on some rough gravel roads and maybe tow a small trailer, but I am not doing anything extreme like rock crawling. For my use-case, a slightly beefed-up Pathfinder or even a Honda Passport should be sufficient.
(5) Longer road trips -- last & unfortunately important road-block. Twice or three times a year we go on a family vacation into a way off the grid location, where there is no cell phone signal and certainly no charging stations (think secluded areas of the UP of Michigan or near Hudson Bay, Canada). Now I think I could still work around it with a Rivian, but it's a nuissance.
(6) Cost of repairs, cost of parts, ease of getting service? long term reliability, especially of the battery? It is a new car company, there is just a lot of unknowns.

So at this point, my plan is to still go through with the purchase, but in short order to put up the car for sale likely as an auction to raise funds for a wilderness/eco-preservation charity in the area (befitting the car / brand). Particularly if I can get a 6-7 seater SUV that has some off-road capability and preferably a hybrid option for better MPG rating and under 50K. Nothing currently on the market strikes me, but Nissan Pathfinder, Rock Creek edition comes closest.

Thoughts, comments? Anyone would try to convince me to change my mind -- please put up your arguments.
You lost me at Nissan Pathfinder. I was laughing too hard to hear the rest.
Joking aside, and with all due respect, the pathfinder (and Nissan generally) has been a hot mess since the mid 1990s. I should know, having had a 1993 and a 2004. The pathfinder was a true overbuilt, body on frame off-roader in the early years. Now it is a mallfinder, a redesigned crossover that is more likely to get you in trouble “off grid” from a mechanical and inferior equipment standpoint.

we are 100% on the same page about driving flashy cars. I am still driving a 2001 land cruiser, despite the means to have what I please. It reliably gets the job done anywhere I go and without turning heads. If I weren’t 100% against ever buying another ICE vehicle, I would be looking to upgrade to a 200 series cruiser. Highly recommend this route for you, if you want peace of mind on your trips.
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