Sponsored

Rivian CEO confirms auxiliary battery packs and vehicle-to-vehicle charging

EyeOnRivian

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Threads
40
Messages
491
Reaction score
435
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicles
Mach-E 4X, Mitsubishi Endeavor. Pre-order: R1S LE
While searching for any EV-to-EV charging, I came across this recently filed article of TheDrive interviewing RJ.

The elusive CEO confirms auxiliary battery packs, vehicle-to-vehicle charging, and his love for Porsches in our exclusive interview.

A few highlights from the interview/article:

Let’s say you get charging infrastructure in places like Joshua Tree or other remote national parks. How do you get further off the edge of the grid?

You're starting to get into the long tail of use cases, but even there we've designed the vehicle so you can have auxiliary battery packs. You can also charge Rivian-to-Rivian, which is a neat thing. You connect the two vehicles and then I could hand you some electrons. That takes us to the limit, and of course you can always find a corner of the world where it won't work, just like you can't find a gas station in Antarctica. You won't be able to find a plug in Antarctica, so there are natural limitations.

Instead of how far, do you want to change the conversation to how fast that people can charge to 80 percent? A lot of the issues stem from ‘Well, I get electric vehicles, but I can fill up a tank of gas in 2 minutes. This is going to take me 30 minutes to get to an 80 percent charge.’

There's a lot of misinformation on this, unfortunately. The speed at which you charge has a huge impact on the life of the batteries. Regardless of what they're telling you, everyone is working with very similar sets in chemistry. There are three or four big battery cell providers here in North America, and their technologies have very minor differences. Ultimately you're up against how fast you can shove electrons in, providing you're effective at cooling the cell and providing it with power to shove it in. The limit is chemistry more than charging strategy, charging profiles, and even cooling. We're all boiling the same water so to speak, and we've optimized the hell out of it for cooling, so we can push electrons in really quickly. We've optimized the profiles, and we've optimized how we operate and run the batteries to maintain life.

At launch, we'll be able to put 200 miles of range into the vehicle in 30 minutes. Could we go faster? Yes. Do we start to really degrade the cell? Yes. In the next five years, you’ll see a lot of demonstrations where things are charged in 15 minutes, but if you do that 30 times, the battery is shot. Those demos are not realistic or repeatable and we'll start to see those get replaced with real world charging speeds and rates. We see that already, like if you tried to supercharge a Tesla twenty days in a row, the 20th day is slower than the first day because Tesla's naturally protecting the pack.

Is Rivian working on that internally?

We're not developing chemistry, we're working with our cell partner and testing ourselves, but we're using existing chemistry. It’s a little in the weeds for us, but I’m just being honest with you. All of people are claiming to do things that they're truly not. Essentially manufacturers buying cells from the same suppliers. Very few people that are actually doing fundamental work and chemistry on an OEM level, and it makes sense because you aggregate the research to a small set of players that then spend their dollars amongst the manufacturers. That's why everybody is running up against the same ceiling and charging times.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Interesting RJ says you can charge "Rivian-to-Rivian." Did he phrase that specifically on purpose, meaning, is he implying it's NOT possible to charge another-EV-to-Rivian and vice versa?
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Hmp10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
629
Reaction score
542
Location
Naples, FL
Vehicles
2015 Tesla Model S P90D; 2018 Honda Odyssey
I do agree that Rivian should not worry about "long tail of use cases" until they get a well-built and reliable vehicle on the road and accumulate real use data. In fact, one article on this patent application noted that manufacturers often apply for patents on things they are not planning to put into production any time soon just to forestall anyone else from beating them to the punch later. The fact that the patent application only covers the R1T might support that scenario.

However, if they are going to put an auxiliary pack into production, I hope they do one for the R1S as well. That would facilitate the way I would most like to configure my R1S. I don't need the third-row seat, and the 135 Kwh battery pack would cover the vast majority of my driving. So I would like to get the higher motor output and faster acceleration of the 135 Kwh pack while dispensing with the added weight of the 180 Kwh pack and the third row seats (which I understand can be eliminated when ordering the smaller packs). Then I would buy the auxiliary battery pack to use on those few occasions where I needed more range.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
This was an early thread about the possibility of auxiliary battery packs. Given the holes in the current charging networks in and around the Intermountain West and other targeted areas, I am hoping this still may play out.

I’d hate to think some basic drawings were submitted for a patent with little or no intent of making it to final production. I guess we’ve seen other cool features disappear, but this was (is/will be) one of the important ones to me. The ability to rent or buy an extra battery for an extended trip would be a great way to avoid range anxiety and could make the difference for someone considering an R1T for the trades or a ranch/farm rig.

I thought it may have been ominous when I didn’t see or hear anything during The Rebelle Rallye or The Long Way Up.

Has anyone heard any news about this hinted feature?
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,767
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
This was an early thread about the possibility of auxiliary battery packs. Given the holes in the current charging networks in and around the Intermountain West and other targeted areas, I am hoping this still may play out.

I’d hate to think some basic drawings were submitted for a patent with little or no intent of making it to final production. I guess we’ve seen other cool features disappear, but this was (is/will be) one of the important ones to me. The ability to rent or buy an extra battery for an extended trip would be a great way to avoid range anxiety and could make the difference for someone considering an R1T for the trades or a ranch/farm rig.

I thought it may have been ominous when I didn’t see or hear anything during The Rebelle Rallye or The Long Way Up.

Has anyone heard any news about this hinted feature?
I think you’ll see the charging network fill in the gaps before you see this play out in any commercially viable way.
 

Sponsored

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
418
Reaction score
522
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
Ford Mach-E GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
I think you’ll see the charging network fill in the gaps before you see this play out in any commercially viable way.
I want the aux pack for more range. I am willing to buy one if they are willing to make it and sell it. The less I have to stop to charge, the better. The aux pack is a great idea because it allows them to sell more range as an add-on cost, and not drive up the base cost of the truck for those who don't want or need it.
 

bsaik

Well-Known Member
First Name
Barry
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
64
Reaction score
121
Location
SF Bay Area
Vehicles
2006 Land Rover RR Sport, R1T reservation holder
The full battery pack weighs something like 1500 lbs. So wouldn’t an auxiliary pack have to weigh something like 500 lbs to be meaningful? I can’t see how this idea is practical for one-off trips as few of us have forklifts in our garages.
 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Threads
39
Messages
4,104
Reaction score
7,706
Location
INACTIVE
Vehicles
INACTIVE
The full battery pack weighs something like 1500 lbs. So wouldn’t an auxiliary pack have to weigh something like 500 lbs to be meaningful? I can’t see how this idea is practical for one-off trips as few of us have forklifts in our garages.
Yep. It’s approximately 180lbs per 50 mile range (based on estimated Rivian efficiency of 450W/mi)

Not practical, and it’ll eat up your cargo space — not to mention economy will decrease as weight increases.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,767
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
The only way I see this being practical is (a) they offer it as a trailer, or (b) it’s something you drive to a service center and rent. High voltage connections and cabling will be a challenge with any approach.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
I think you’ll see the charging network fill in the gaps before you see this play out in any commercially viable way.
Greg, Agreed. The focus should be on filling in the gaps, but for that trip that will include backcountry or serious overlanding, having auxiliary juice would be helpful.

From earlier conversations, I’ve assumed it would be a scenario where one would pull up and have it installed at a Rivian Center. Maybe a mobile Service Tech could install one, but it would likely not be a simple plug-and-play feature, due to size/weight and safety concerns.
 

Sponsored

bsaik

Well-Known Member
First Name
Barry
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Threads
2
Messages
64
Reaction score
121
Location
SF Bay Area
Vehicles
2006 Land Rover RR Sport, R1T reservation holder
The BMS for heating and cooling the battery is not just a simple plug a couple wires in thing. If the cooling involves glycol you‘d have to properly hook up and fill the glycol system.

[edit] sorry - nevermind. I see no liquid cooling in the Rivian packs.
 

DuckTruck

Well-Known Member
First Name
Duck
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
6,228
Location
PNW
Vehicles
Corvair, BMW325, Acura Legend, XC60, '16 Caddy ELR
Clubs
 
Maybe they aux packs will be solid state. Are those lighter? (Me ducking for cover.)

Yes, this is sort of meant to be a joke. :)
I get it, and I love the humor!

The more I read from all of you, the more my Hopium High fades. The lack of any news from the company is not a good sign, especially when coupled with the lack of any visible coupling device or bed rail detents where an aux-bat would be secured.

The good news is that Spring is almost here. The Hopium plants will be in full bloom!?
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
3,143
Location
ORegon
Vehicles
Polestar 2, Ioniq, R1S
Rather than going to the expense of developing and fitting all R1Ts produced with the hardware and software required to put extra batteries in the bed, having a few custom modified versions scattered around for customers to rent would likely be much more cost effective.

Filling the bed with batteries would of course use up much of your payload capacity in both weight and volume, and block access to the spare if you plan on carrying one for off-roading.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Threads
69
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
6,455
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S
I see no liquid cooling in the Rivian packs.
Why do you say that? The R1 has 3 separate thermal circuits (cabin, motor/inverter and battery pack). The battery pack utilizes a cooling plate between the 2 layers of batteries.
Sponsored

 
 




Top