R1T $69,000 starting price - opinions

DocTwinkie · Apr 14, 2019

Cardiffarian said:
That’s about $20K more than what would make me tap out

After the event I think I’m tapped out. What I saw was amazing, but so is a Lamborghini. I have no idea who they think this car is for. The outdoor enthusiast who has a business doing construction work and will benefit from using their air tools and also has an income so disposable a 100k truck is a viable option. It’s an amazing machine. No doubt. I just don’t think there is a big market for it. When Audi, Benz, Jag, and BMW are all in the game.

Cardiffarian · Apr 14, 2019

DocTwinkie said:
After the event I think I’m tapped out. What I saw was amazing, but so is a Lamborghini. I have no idea who they think this car is for. The outdoor enthusiast who has a business doing construction work and will benefit from using their air tools and also has an income so disposable a 100k truck is a viable option. It’s an amazing machine. No doubt. I just don’t think there is a big market for it. When Audi, Benz, Jag, and BMW are all in the game.

I’m with you, DocTwinkie. The price point is everything. The standard equipment is everything. And the reason everything is everything is because the value (to me) is in its awesomeness, not in its utility. Light duty at best, because it will become my baby and shall never break or get a scratch. If a well appointed mid level comes in at
$80 plus, I would have to decline and wait for something else. I would be sad, but still have my dignity.

GJMOH · Apr 15, 2019

Cardiffarian said:
That’s about $20K more than what would make me tap out

Everyone has their own way of valuing this.

Every time I configured a Tesla X it was over $100k and it didn’t look like a $100k car to me.

My wife (who is at best, enduring my enthusiasm) took a look at the R1T/S and said “I can see why you want the truck (even though I don’t need one), it’s not like anything else.

If I can spend $75k on a corvette with tires that can’t be used below 40degrees, I can sell that, pay for a substantial portion of the R1T and have a higher performing vehicle.

Then again, I’m too good at justifying things I want

SpinDoc7 · Apr 15, 2019

Same feelings here. I’m planning on attending NYAuto on 27th. Looking to ask about financing options, among many other questions.

skyote · Apr 17, 2019

It might be a smaller addressable market, but they cannot mass produce yet either, so that's good.

This vehicle checks all of the boxes for me. Electric with good range, ridiculous acceleration, AWD/offroad capability, and 3rd row (R1S).

Talked to the wife about getting a Suburban (nixed), & I've wanted a Corvette Z06 for awhile, but a 2 seater is not practical enough for a household with 3 kids. I also have a diesel 4x4 truck for towing/RV & Jeep for serious offroad, but this will be my overall utility vehicle.

Cost & acceleration are on par with the Z06, and I get A LOT more for the money!

DanteCip · Apr 25, 2019

Imma be real with you guys, the price point for these cars are too high for most people who would look at them. The average adventure man or woman would probably just end up buying a subaru... People who want to do good for the environment and drive electric cars and take care of the nature they love to experience just don't have 70,000 to spend on a truck, those people are spending their money on tools, equipment and surfboards/bikes. If Rivian wants to make a difference and money as well, (granted I have no idea what it cost to them make to make these awesome vehicles), they should lower the price to something more presentable, like 50,000. If I, and most other people had the money for one of these trucks we would probably just end up buying a raptor. On top of that what kind of people does Rivian want to attract, there are many people who want a tesla but the stigma behind the people who drive it will immediately crush those electrified dreams, if Rivian starts their market placement with a 70,000$ truck only pretentious douchebags are going to buy it right out of the gate (sorry for the crudeness but I am being honest). Everybody in the "adventure" scene does not like glampers, and thats who will most likely buy the vehicle and therefore kill the brand image almost immediately. So to summarize my rant, the Rivian fleet is currently priced to high and their marketing/price is attracting people that will affect the brand image negatively, but these problems can easily be fixed, we all know that inflation of the dollar and inflation in the automotive industry have increased unevenly in a ridiculous fashion, there is plenty of room to lower the price, increasing the amount of buyers as well as giving the brand a chance to actually compete in the market. You cannot compete in the outdoor market if you cater towards a social/economic class that sparsely populates the community.

I would like to further debate this as I am not an expert, seeing if other people agree/disagree could help influence my thoughts.
- Dante Cipriano

DocTwinkie · Apr 25, 2019

DanteCip said:
Imma be real with you guys, the price point for these cars are too high for most people who would look at them. The average adventure man or woman would probably just end up buying a subaru... People who want to do good for the environment and drive electric cars and take care of the nature they love to experience just don't have 70,000 to spend on a truck, those people are spending their money on tools, equipment and surfboards/bikes. If Rivian wants to make a difference and money as well, (granted I have no idea what it cost to them make to make these awesome vehicles), they should lower the price to something more presentable, like 50,000. If I, and most other people had the money for one of these trucks we would probably just end up buying a raptor. On top of that what kind of people does Rivian want to attract, there are many people who want a tesla but the stigma behind the people who drive it will immediately crush those electrified dreams, if Rivian starts their market placement with a 70,000$ truck only pretentious douchebags are going to buy it right out of the gate (sorry for the crudeness but I am being honest). Everybody in the "adventure" scene does not like glampers, and thats who will most likely buy the vehicle and therefore kill the brand image almost immediately. So to summarize my rant, the Rivian fleet is currently priced to high and their marketing/price is attracting people that will affect the brand image negatively, but these problems can easily be fixed, we all know that inflation of the dollar and inflation in the automotive industry have increased unevenly in a ridiculous fashion, there is plenty of room to lower the price, increasing the amount of buyers as well as giving the brand a chance to actually compete in the market. You cannot compete in the outdoor market if you cater towards a social/economic class that sparsely populates the community.

I would like to further debate this as I am not an expert, seeing if other people agree/disagree could help influence my thoughts.
- Dante Cipriano

I’m with you to an extent. I agree they are priced high. The big question is what is included. If they are very well equipped and the battery pack increases are <10k per upgrade then I think they are priced high, but right for what you get.

Now if there are options that nickel and dime you for 10-20k then no. They are priced obscenely too expensive.

A fully loaded wrangler is over 62k (keeping in mind you’ll pay far less than that) which is where this starts. Again if it starts nearly fully loaded great. But if the smallest battery pack requires another 20k to fully load it then no. They are too expensive.

Rivian R1T R1S R1T $69,000 starting price - opinions 1E413DBB-F151-41DB-9D4D-58F8B2B87D74

krcossin · Apr 25, 2019

Let's take a look at several competitors MSRP's:

Model X P100D: MSRP: From $138,000
Range Rover: MSRP: From $89,500
Corvette Z06: MSRP: From $80,900
Escalade: MSRP: From $75,195
Navigator: MSRP: From $73,205
Tahoe Denali: MSRP: From $66,700
Cayenne: MSRP: From $65,700
Suburban Premier: MSRP: From $65,500
Raptor: MSRP: From $52,855

Above from Google, no options.
I don't see Rivian prices unreasonable. You can't compare these higher end vehicles to budget minded shoppers, they will get the Kona and be super happy.
I think my decision to purchase a Suburban LTZ (similar to Premier) was actually OK, a Raptor is in my opinion the best value it holds residual really well, it's used value is better then most in that large SUV/truck segment and I will sell the LTZ as soon as I take delivery on the R1T.
I agree it will be interesting how hard Rivian hits us with options. I'm already leaning toward the 135kWh battery with no fancy tailgate, no electrochromatic roof.

Hmp10 · Apr 25, 2019

Almost every new technology has come onto the market at much higher prices than it will eventually cost. The first ICE cars were something only the wealthy could afford until Henry Ford brought prices down with mass assembly techniques. Televisions were something that only very well-to-do people could afford originally. Early computers and cellular phones were priced beyond the reach of most working people. When I entered college in the late 60's, the Credit Union offered student loans for engineering students to buy their Texas Instruments calculators. There is nothing unusual or insidious about EV's entering the market at price points that are initially prohibitive for mass consumers.

Huge investments are required to bring electric vehicles to the market. Elon Musk openly admitted in the first few years of Model S production that purchasers were paying for development of the technology as well as for the direct costs of producing the vehicle. The Tesla for which I paid $128,000 in 2015 can now be had for $106,500 with more range, power, and features. Even with investors to shoulder a lot of the development costs, battery packs remain a huge cost driver for high EV prices and will remain so for a few more years, even though price per kW hour is falling at a steady pace.

Calling people who adopt early technology "pretentious douchebags" may help some people cope with their frustration at not being able to afford it, but without early adopters who can pay the purchase prices to keep these expensive new technologies advancing so they can reach the scale for wider market penetration at more affordable prices, we'd still be riding in horses and buggies.

DanteCip · Apr 25, 2019

DocTwinkie said:
I’m with you to an extent. I agree they are priced high. The big question is what is included. If they are very well equipped and the battery pack increases are <10k per upgrade then I think they are priced high, but right for what you get.

Now if there are options that nickel and dime you for 10-20k then no. They are priced obscenely too expensive.

A fully loaded wrangler is over 62k (keeping in mind you’ll pay far less than that) which is where this starts. Again if it starts nearly fully loaded great. But if the smallest battery pack requires another 20k to fully load it then no. They are too expensive.

That is a good way to put it yes, comparing it to the new jeep as well i guess my full problem lies within the automotive industry as a whole. It is more of a secret hope of mine when I see these new companies that they don't fall into the same hole as the rest of them

Cardiffarian · Apr 25, 2019

Have you ever wanted something real bad that made no sense? That is this truck to me. No sense on many levels. If you have the disposable cash to actually go out and rip this thing up, then more power to you. IMO, it is one step below a trailer queen. I can’t imagine using it the way it is being marketed. But, I want it real bad regardless. Ask your wife what she honestly thinks and you will probably get the right answer.

Hmp10 · Apr 25, 2019

I always loved high-powered cars and the noises they made and owned my share of them. But none of them were as addictive as the almost silent pull of a powerful electric vehicle. One of the car mags referred to the "being launched from an aircraft carrier feel" of the Tesla P100D in a recent review, and Rivian is promising that kind of acceleration IN A PICKUP TRUCK and an SUV! Once you drive one, I think you'll find plenty of sense in your longing.

The first time I had my tires changed and an alignment check done on my Tesla, the guy at the tire store said he needed to take the car out for a test drive to be sure everything was in order. (Oddly, he had never had to test drive my Honda Odyssey when doing the same work on it.) Twenty minutes later he returned the key fob to me with a big grin and said, "once people drive these things, everyone's going to want one."

DocTwinkie · Apr 25, 2019

Again. It just lies in the options. A fully loaded ram 1500 is about 70. You’ll obviously pay thousands less than that.

The fact is times are changing. You can get nearly every single luxury convenience on a cheap Kia. You can also pay a fortune for a Land Rover that is practically designed to fall apart at the end of the warranty.

It’s a curious thing and I bounce back and forth. I’d love to have a car that doesn’t use gas and can haul all my junk and do some off-roading.

I’d pay a small premium to do that. But when you buy a Land Rover or a Denali Or whatever you’re paying for status. Not really functionality. There’s not really anything on those things you can’t get on a car less than half the price.

This comes in around 60k let’s say for the 240 battery. If the 300 is 70 then I think this is good. If it’s 70 but you need to add another 20 or 30 to get the truck we are seeing at the auto show then at least for me that’s a no.

Honestly if the Jeep plug in gets 30mi on a charge and had LKAS I’d go that route. The Aviator would be my luxury choice and should have a good electric range.

I just wanna know what the price of that show truck is. That a 70k truck after tax rebate or a 100+. Anyone can say the price starts at “X” when you’re not actually making that product (cough cough model 3). But just once I wish they’d say as shown the price is....

Hmp10 · Apr 25, 2019

Just go to any car dealer and try to lease a car for the lease price advertised on TV. I'm afraid teaser pricing is so deeply embedded in the car industry that nothing is going to root it out. Tesla is notorious for this. If you go onto their website and use the order configurator, not only did the most prominently displayed price include the federal tax rebate while it was still available, but there is also a reduction to reflect the anticipated gas savings over a certain period of time. You can't actually buy the car you've configured for the primarily displayed price, but have to look more carefully for the real price, which is going to be thousands of dollars more.

It's the same thing with Porsche. You go in to a dealer to buy a Porsche you think is going to cost $80,000 and by the time you order the options you assumed would be standard at that price, you've added another $20K to the price. The other day I was looking at an order configurator for a Bentley Mulsanne (I play with configurators as a hobby; not gonna order one) and found that parking sensors were an (expensive) option on that $340,000 car.

I think krcossin's approach of comparing Rivian pricing to other high-end trucks and SUV's is the only way to keep your feet on the ground and your head from exploding. Trying to figure out whether or not you see Rivian as a value from their own advertising is probably hopeless.

skyote · Apr 30, 2019

Over the 105kwh base model, I think you're looking at an extra $10K for the 135kwh/300 mile range, and no telling how much in available options.

I can easily see another 10K in desirable options, so is R1T/R1S worth 82K-85K after tax rebate? Compared to Tesla S or X, I personally think so.

R1T $69,000 starting price - opinions

DocTwinkie

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Cardiffarian

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GJMOH

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SpinDoc7

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skyote

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DanteCip

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DocTwinkie

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krcossin

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Hmp10

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DanteCip

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Cardiffarian

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Hmp10

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DocTwinkie

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Hmp10

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skyote

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