With temperatures dropping is anyone else already noticing range losses?

[SASSquatch]

As an EV owner for the last 6 years I can tell you from personal experience that colder temperatures mean significant range loss - anywhere from 25-40%.

It isn't just the inefficient resistive heat you are using in the interior. The batteries need to be protected and so the vehicle will use energy to thermally regulate the battery temperature, especially when temperatures drop below 40 degrees.

My carbon fiber bodied BMW i3s, which already uses a heat pump and is uber efficient (I regularly get over 5 mi/kWh in primarily city driving) sees a 40% range hit in the winter.

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[SlaterGS]

As an EV owner for the last 6 years I can tell you from personal experience that colder temperatures mean significant range loss - anywhere from 25-40%.

It isn't just the inefficient resistive heat you are using in the interior. The batteries need to be protected and so the vehicle will use energy to thermally regulate the battery temperature, especially when temperatures drop below 40 degrees.

My carbon fiber bodied BMW i3s, which already uses a heat pump and is uber efficient (I regularly get over 5 mi/kWh in primarily city driving) sees a 40% range hit in the winter.

That seems crazy.
I'm pushing 8-10% range loss at best in my Leaf over the last 3 years, however I am typically driving by myself so using the heated seats, heated steering wheel and a bit of heat typically for the purpose of defrosting.
If I had to heat more of the cabin for passengers, then I would see more of a hit, but nowhere near 25-40%.
I've been estimating 10-15% for my upcoming R1S, really hoping not to be in your range of experience.

 

[rhumbliner]

As an EV owner for the last 6 years I can tell you from personal experience that colder temperatures mean significant range loss - anywhere from 25-40%.

That seems a little extreme. I routinely drive my 2019 Model S between Bend & Jackson Hole in winter and often experience -20ºF temps and the biggest drop I’ve ever seen was ~20%. The mitigating factor is that I always pre-condition the battery before I leave and I use the cabin heat very sparingly. I’ll be very curious to see what kind of drop I experience with my R1T.

 

[DJG]

As an EV owner for the last 6 years I can tell you from personal experience that colder temperatures mean significant range loss - anywhere from 25-40%.

It isn't just the inefficient resistive heat you are using in the interior. The batteries need to be protected and so the vehicle will use energy to thermally regulate the battery temperature, especially when temperatures drop below 40 degrees.

My carbon fiber bodied BMW i3s, which already uses a heat pump and is uber efficient (I regularly get over 5 mi/kWh in primarily city driving) sees a 40% range hit in the winter.

Winter is a broad term depending on who you ask, but you have to remember that smaller battery vehicles will see a larger hit to range than larger battery vehicles, because the energy needed to heat the cabin is nearly the same for both but much less as a percentage for a larger vehicle. That's before accounting for thermal management and battery chemistry differences.

Based on significant fleet data collected by Recurrent, an eTron (~85kwh battery) is expected to see about 14% range loss at 20 degree F temps vs. the ideal temp of 80-85. It does not have a heat pump. In TX winters (35-45 temps), the range loss I experienced was hardly noticeable, 10% or less. Eventually Recurrent will have enough data to report the same for Rivians.

Based on reports from people up north that took delivery in March, range loss in the Rivian in 25-35F temps appears to be similar to that of the eTron, 10-15%.

 

[loudog3114]

It was 40s-50s yesterday in New England when I took a long drive out to a wedding. I only got ~290miles of range on a full charge in conserve mode with the 21" tires.

I actually almost ran out of charge because I let Rivian nav pick out a charger on my route as I was getting low and it expected to arrive with 10miles of range to spare.

This is why I use the % battery meter rather than the GOM (guess o meter) and do the math in my head myself. If it was saying 10 miles to spare thats probably 5% remaining battery at best. I don't go to any destination without at least 10% remaining.

 

[SASSquatch]

Winter is a broad term depending on who you ask, but you have to remember that smaller battery vehicles will see a larger hit to range than larger battery vehicles, because the energy needed to heat the cabin is nearly the same for both but much less as a percentage for a larger vehicle. That's before accounting for thermal management and battery chemistry differences.

Based on significant fleet data collected by Recurrent, an eTron (~85kwh battery) is expected to see about 14% range loss at 20 degree F temps vs. the ideal temp of 80-85. It does not have a heat pump. In TX winters (35-45 temps), the range loss I experienced was hardly noticeable, 10% or less. Eventually Recurrent will have enough data to report the same for Rivians.

Based on reports from people up north that took delivery in March, range loss in the Rivian in 25-35F temps appears to be similar to that of the eTron, 10-15%.

The mechanism of heating a vehicle has much more impact on energy efficiency, and range, then the battery size. Resistive heating, which is found in most vehicles, is much more inefficient than a heat pump system.

The size of the battery does play a role in thermal management, and a portion of range loss is directly attributable to the energy required to thermally regulate the battery in low temperatures.

You are correct that "winter" is a non specific term when it comes to temperatures. Low temperatures in the NE during winter months are very different then the SW and will impact range differently.

 

[SASSquatch]

That seems crazy.
I'm pushing 8-10% range loss at best in my Leaf over the last 3 years, however I am typically driving by myself so using the heated seats, heated steering wheel and a bit of heat typically for the purpose of defrosting.
If I had to heat more of the cabin for passengers, then I would see more of a hit, but nowhere near 25-40%.
I've been estimating 10-15% for my upcoming R1S, really hoping not to be in your range of experience.

What part of the country do you live in? How cold are your "cold" temperatures? Seeing a range loss of 40% or more is not uncommon with EVs depending on your use of resistive heating for the cabin.

https://apnews.com/article/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1

 

[golden_frog]

Bigger battery and less efficiency should help mitigate the relative cost of heating the cab compared to a Tesla or other small EV.

I've been getting ~1.8 mi/kWh in the morning and 2.2 in the evening on a flat 160 mile roundtrip commute. Not sure why, could be colder mornings, 80mph

 

[Hyro]

I saw about ~10% hit with my Polestar 2 last winter in the PNW (30-40f). It has a heat pump. I'm also super curious about this, as my R1T is parked outside.

 

[RealBillNye]

Bigger battery and less efficiency should help mitigate the relative cost of heating the cab compared to a Tesla or other small EV.

I've been getting ~1.8 mi/kWh in the morning and 2.2 in the evening on a flat 160 mile roundtrip commute. Not sure why, could be colder mornings, 80mph

The lower tire pressures at cold temperature (if you don't adjust them frequently) also play a large factor. I got an almost 10% increase in efficiently just from correcting my cold tire pressure from 44 to 48psi.

 

[SlaterGS]

What part of the country do you live in? How cold are your "cold" temperatures? Seeing a range loss of 40% or more is not uncommon with EVs depending on your use of resistive heating for the cabin.

https://apnews.com/article/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1

NE Ohio so normally colder than you. I just haven’t seen what you’re describing in my experience.

 

[SASSquatch]

NE Ohio so normally colder than you. I just haven’t seen what you’re describing in my experience.

What I'm describing is validated in aggregated data (see link below - again). Your report and my report are anecdotal. I know someone who claims they get better range in cold temperatures driving a Chevy Bolt...

https://apnews.com/article/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1

 

[DJG]

The mechanism of heating a vehicle has much more impact on energy efficiency, and range, then the battery size. Resistive heating, which is found in most vehicles, is much more inefficient than a heat pump system.

The size of the battery does play a role in thermal management, and a portion of range loss is directly attributable to the energy required to thermally regulate the battery in low temperatures.

You are correct that "winter" is a non specific term when it comes to temperatures. Low temperatures in the NE during winter months are very different then the SW and will impact range differently.

What I'm saying is, XX kwh required to heat a cabin is a lower % of a large battery, so less range loss in % terms. In other words, a Model 3 SR will have a larger winter range loss (in %) than a Model 3 LR. They use the same amount of energy to condition the cabin and thus lose the same number of miles (this is only part of the total picture, because there's also the battery thermal management, but there are also economies/efficiencies of scale there too).

 

[SlaterGS]

What I'm describing is validated in aggregated data (see link below - again). Your report and my report are anecdotal. I know someone who claims they get better range in cold temperatures driving a Chevy Bolt...

https://apnews.com/article/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1

Should new buyers understand that there can/will be a hit on your range in the winter? Absolutely
Do I feel that article is being clickbaity and aimed at scaring people away from EV's more than giving meaningful information? Yes

Here's a link to the actual data rather than the article. (LINK)
I only skimmed it so feel free to correct or provide additional information that you might pick up.

I would like to know how many miles at 65mph each test was conducted, what cabin temperature was targeted, etc. Did I miss this somewhere?
I feel like an intern was tasked with making it the worst case scenario so he hopped in, launched it to 65mph, cranked the heat up, and stopped 10 miles later.
Yes, efficiency will be worse for the short trips, but that is not the time where the range is important and if short trips were targeted for the study than it is a useless study IMO unless it's strictly looking at the cost per mile.

I generally put very little stock into anything Tesla says but I agree with their statement " the average Model S customer doesn’t experience anywhere near that decrease in range. "

 

[Arky]

2nd winter in an EV. We learned a few things last winter in our Ioniq5. On road trips in the cold, dress warm (good advice for ICE also as you never know when you'll break down and need those boots, coat, and a hat). Use the seat heaters first. Dad was right, it's very expensive to heat the outdoors which is what you're doing as the car brings in fresh air.

There were a bunch of trips (-10F) where the heat never made it to the second row. This is a Ioniq5 problem, but having enough layers was key.

I'm curious to see what my range is on a ski trip, but I already expect to use less heat than average since I dress warm for that already. Easier to put all the winter gear on at the house than up at the mountain

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