Why is RIVN market cap ($12 bln) only equal to cash on hand??

[itselectric]

Sadly lots of companies are like that, the market is irrational some times IMO.

I am still hung up on the fact that Lucid has a larger market cap than Rivian despite a much worst financial/demand picture and with a product that isn't compelling as any of Rivians (again my opinion).

I guess hold and be patient....

Lucid, I think, is not long for this world unfortunately.

They are in town doing test drives at a local shopping center area. Their display vehicle has interior trim that's coming apart in multiple spots and some really bad misaligned panels like the trunk. I need to add the software was so laggy. I could not imagine using that every day.

Another guy was sitting in the car as well and noted the same things. This was right after the sales person told us how they are really focused on quality and that's what sets them apart from other EV brands.



My primary concern is that if lucid goes under next year that it hurts confidence in Rivian unless they are just having a tremendous year.

I agree with your opinion. A large, extremely expensive sedan wasn't the right call. They should have launched with the SUV instead.

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[Biturbowned]

I look at the current price as a gift, I’ve been buying heavier than I planned. I’m not playing the momentum game.

 

[SASSquatch]

Lucid, I think, is not long for this world unfortunately.

They are in town doing test drives at a local shopping center area. Their display vehicle has interior trim that's coming apart in multiple spots and some really bad misaligned panels like the trunk. I need to add the software was so laggy. I could not imagine using that every day.

Another guy was sitting in the car as well and noted the same things. This was right after the sales person told us how they are really focused on quality and that's what sets them apart from other EV brands.



My primary concern is that if lucid goes under next year that it hurts confidence in Rivian unless they are just having a tremendous year.

I agree with your opinion. A large, extremely expensive sedan wasn't the right call. They should have launched with the SUV instead.

I don't think Lucid tanking really impacts Rivian. What impacts Rivian is whether they can execute on their production targets and whether they can keep demand as high as or higher than supply once they ramp production.

Also, they need to make money, which means they need to build, build, build.

Meanwhile - I absolutely loathe, with a passion, sedans. I don't understand why OEMS keep introducing sedans into the market.

Out of all of the vehicle types (hatchbacks, wagons, cross-overs, SUVs, trucks) they are the least practical outside of sports sedans or convertibles that clearly have an intended demographic/market.

 

[Rivianation]

I don't think Lucid tanking really impacts Rivian.
. . .
Meanwhile - I absolutely loathe, with a passion, sedans. I don't understand why OEMS keep introducing sedans into the market.
. . .

Efficiency. You can't move 4 adults in a forward motion at 80mph as efficiently as in a sedan.

 

[SASSquatch]

Efficiency. You can't move 4 adults in a forward motion at 80mph as efficiently as in a sedan.

Huh?

The sedanness (yes, I just made that up) has nothing to do with vehicle efficiency. I can show you plenty of inefficient sedans relative to hatchback counterparts.

 

[Rivianation]

Huh?

The sedanness (yes, I just made that up) has nothing to do with vehicle efficiency. I can show you plenty of inefficient sedans relative to hatchback counterparts.

All things equal (except shape), sedan has less air resistance due to low profile. Lucid chose most efficient EV shape.

 

[SASSquatch]

All things equal (except shape), sedan has less air resistance due to low profile. Lucid chose most efficient EV shape.

Drag coefficient isn't the only metric of efficiency. Hatchbacks usually have less weight which makes up for the marginally higher drag.

 

[Rivianation]

So did Tesla

Drag coefficient isn't the only metric of efficiency. Hatchbacks usually have less weight which makes up for the marginally higher drag.

Weight not relevant... once you reach 80mph, shape is the only consideration.

Also, practicality aside, HBs have a drop off at the rear, which creates drag. Hyundai IONIQ6 is the most efficient shape in cardom.

 

[docwhiz]

Drag coefficient isn't the only metric of efficiency. Hatchbacks usually have less weight which makes up for the marginally higher drag.

I have a Tesla model S which is a large heavy hatchback sedan. Gets 3 or 4 miles / kWh. Lots of room for people and stuff. Regularly go camping in it.
Love it.

 

[SASSquatch]

One of the lowest drag coefficient vehicles ever designed was a hatchback.

Volkswagen XL1 Hatchback. Drag Coefficient: .19
Lucid Air Sedan. Drag Coefficient: .2

 

[SASSquatch]

So did Tesla


Weight not relevant... once you reach 80mph, shape is the only consideration.

Also, practicality aside, HBs have a drop off at the rear, which creates drag. Hyundai IONIQ6 is the most efficient shape in cardom.

Weight is irrelevant?

So if I drive a 20,000 pound vehicle with the same drag coefficient vs a 5,000 pound vehicle - all other things being equal, I will have the same efficiency at 80 mph?

 

[docwhiz]

Weight is irrelevant?

So if I drive a 20,000 pound vehicle with the same drag coefficient vs a 5,000 pound vehicle - all other things being equal, I will have the same efficiency at 80 mph?

Important to remember that drag coefficient is a ratio to frontal area. 1.0 being a brick.
When comparing, keep the size of the brick in mind.

 

[Rivianation]

Weight is irrelevant?

So if I drive a 20,000 pound vehicle with the same drag coefficient vs a 5,000 pound vehicle - all other things being equal, I will have the same efficiency at 80 mph?

Correct! I never said how fast you get to 80mph. But once there, the weight is already moving at 80, so weight not relevant.

EDIT: Well... technically, there is more weight on the wheel bearings so there is a teensy bit more resistance on the heavier vehicle. But hats off to well greased modern wheel bearings!

 

[Prius]

Stock could be even lower after the EV9 comes out.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Efficiency. You can't move 4 adults in a forward motion at 80mph as efficiently as in a sedan.

Oh there are definitely more efficient 4 person vehicles than a sedan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobsleigh

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