Why are EA 350kw chargers so much slower than 150kws on our trucks?

[swhme]

I know this is pretty common knowledge, but I’m not sure of why. Anybody care to educate me? Maybe a video idea for @OutofSpecKyle ?

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[Mathme]

One of the members a while ago did a video and showed that the 150 & 350s charge about the same pace overall. I think it has to do with the 350s putting more electricity into the battery, and thus the car throttling it for thermal management

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Need 800v to charge at 350kw

 

[swhme]

One of the members a while ago did a video and showed that the 150 & 350s charge about the same pace overall. I think it has to do with the 350s putting more electricity into the battery, and thus the car throttling it for thermal management

I just did a test— at 20% SoC I got 54kw from a 350, waited 5 minutes, was steady at 54. Moved to a 150kw and got 152kw immediately (I was only charging to 40% so perhaps the upper end of the charging curve is different, but It would take a big difference to make up for being 100kw slower in the first half of the battery.

 

[JWreck]

Because Rivian’s thermal management is junk.

 

[VSG]

I just did a test— at 20% SoC I got 54kw from a 350, waited 5 minutes, was steady at 54. Moved to a 150kw and got 152kw immediately (I was only charging to 40% so perhaps the upper end of the charging curve is different, but It would take a big difference to make up for being 100kw slower in the first half of the battery.

That's a problem with the particular 350kW charger you were using, that's most certainly not your Rivian's fault.

I get above 200kW on a 350kW charger at 20% SoC. The highest I've seen is 219kW.

 

[SANZC02]

I just did a test— at 20% SoC I got 54kw from a 350, waited 5 minutes, was steady at 54. Moved to a 150kw and got 152kw immediately (I was only charging to 40% so perhaps the upper end of the charging curve is different, but It would take a big difference to make up for being 100kw slower in the first half of the battery.

May have been an issue with those units. I’ve seen peaks of 223 on 350 units and peaks of 178 on 150 units. Over all the difference between the 350 and 150 EA units is only a few minutes as they do not hold peaks over 200 that long.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Rivian is not 800v so it will never see 350kw. 350kw is for 800v vehicle like ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. I believe the R1 can take in 220ish kw....the most I have seen from EA stations is....wait for it....175kw.

I believe Rivian can take in 500 amp. So if you convert that to kw and use a voltage of 400 you get 200kw...440v 220kw...480....240kw.

Now if you double the voltage...

 

[Thedude]

I will use the 350kw stations if I’m at a low SOC and need a quick hit. They’re usually around 220kwh charge rates. If it’s just a normal charge then I’ll be polite and use a 150kwh charger and leave the 350 open for someone who can actually take advantage of it fully.

 

[Throwdown]

I've seen 225 before, they really need to raise the max to 250

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I've seen 225 before, they really need to raise the max to 250

I'm all for faster charging. Tesla maxes out near 260kw but it's only for a very short time. But something like the Model Y only has an 80kw battery. The R1 usable is around 128 ish IIRC. At the 350kw chargers on a recent road trip ...two back to back chargers were working well. I was able to get up to 175kw and it held above 150kw...going off memory here...but didn't start to taper much until it hit 60% still fast until 80% then it slowed way down.

The painful chargers are the ones that are 50 or even 80kw. Anything less than 100kw is painfully slow IMO.

800v gives some great charging times but at many stations the limiting factor is also the grid input. That can be cut back during times of high demand for example. Rivian did increase it from 450amp to 500amp about a year ago.

 

[emoore]

Because Rivian’s thermal management is junk.

No that’s not it. It’s the EA charger limiting it due failed cooling in the cable.

 

[Joe schmoe]

May have been an issue with those units. I’ve seen peaks of 223 on 350 units and peaks of 178 on 150 units. Over all the difference between the 350 and 150 EA units is only a few minutes as they do not hold peaks over 200 that long.

This.

The added piece of information is that the 350kw cabinets seem to be less reliable, and most of the EA 350kw stations (at least in the southeast) are broken or throttled.

 

[emoore]

This.

The added piece of information is that the 350kw cabinets seem to be less reliable, and most of the EA 350kw stations (at least in the southeast) are broken or throttled.

Would be nice to have the stations under cover vs out in the sun. I think that has some impact on the liquid cooled cables.

 

[hilld]

I charge at a few 350kW chargers quite frequently and often I pull around 215-220kW early on in the charge cycle.

If you are getting around 35kW, that is a problem with the charger, often that has to do with the liquid cooling of the cable not working properly and therefore it limits it to 35kW to prevent the cable from overheating. -- I have experienced this quite a bit a few years ago with a previous car.

One time at band camp, no in all seriousness, I met a tech at one of the stations when I charging and he is the one that told me about the liquid cooling failure mode safety of limiting the output to around 35kW.

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