Who else is pissed that order # doesn't matter?

[2021R1T]

Yes, I don’t like that the reservation order date is apparently the last factor of consideration with respect to an actual delivery. The bigger disappointment is Rivian’s service center rollout, which makes you think they knew upfront that deliveries were significantly further off than they claimed and in reality are even further off for a lot of folks. I did reserve a Lightning and just went ahead and replaced my wife’s Q3 with a Q5 plugin. The deposit is not a big deal and I expect to probably get it back. My excitement if not euphoria at the Denver Rivian reveal over two years ago is just flat gone. I am visiting this forum less and less.

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[cc84]

Otherwise, prepare to be patient.

No doubt you're right about this. No choice. I think I've set a personal best record for patience. When I ordered in early 2019, production was to begin at the end of 2020, then the Pandemic came along and pushed to June 2021 production. Then on May 28th, I finally realized what the wording meant in my Pre-order contract. So, I am now set for no later than June 21, 2022. Boy I sure hope it's sooner than that.

Anyway, I guess my point is, I thought as you got older you would have more patience. That's not exactly true. I seem to be in a bigger hurry to get things done before the inevitable happens. Though I have no choice except be patient if I want an electric truck (I'm really not patient, I pretend to be). I still think it's okay to vent your frustrations, which is closely associated to "complaining", but I think it's mostly out of frustration. I certainly have no intentions of causing harm to any corporation when I do this, or even when I speculate.

I would think if people were actually complaining, then they would cancel their order and get their deposit back. I've not seen that yet, so I think it's all talk and no action.......including me. Venting your frustrations. Some on here are good listeners and some just don't want to hear it.

From a pragmatic perspective, always have an alternative (F150 lightning, Hummer EV, anyone?)

Good advice. On May 19th, being we had not heard from any Guide contact, I knew at that point I needed a "Plan B" and placed an early reservation for the F-150 Lightning. On May 28th, after the first Guide contact, I realized I made the correct decision, when I realized I could possibly be waiting for another full year. I will re-evaluate my situation at the end of the year and see how I want to continue forward. About all I can do.

 

[RWerksman]

No doubt you're right about this. No choice. I think I've set a personal best record for patience. When I ordered in early 2019, production was to begin at the end of 2020, then the Pandemic came along and pushed to June 2021 production. Then on May 28th, I finally realized what the wording meant in my Pre-order contract. So, I am now set for no later than June 21, 2022. Boy I sure hope it's sooner than that.

Anyway, I guess my point is, I thought as you got older you would have more patience. That's not exactly true. I seem to be in a bigger hurry to get things done before the inevitable happens. Though I have no choice except be patient if I want an electric truck (I'm really not patient, I pretend to be). I still think it's okay to vent your frustrations, which is closely associated to "complaining", but I think it's mostly out of frustration. I certainly have no intentions of causing harm to any corporation when I do this, or even when I speculate.

I would think if people were actually complaining, then they would cancel their order and get their deposit back. I've not seen that yet, so I think it's all talk and no action.......including me. Venting your frustrations. Some on here are good listeners and some just don't want to hear it.

Good advice. On May 19th, being we had not heard from any Guide contact, I knew at that point I needed a "Plan B" and placed an early reservation for the F-150 Lightning. On May 28th, after the first Guide contact, I realized I made the correct decision, when I realized I could possibly be waiting for another full year. I will re-evaluate my situation at the end of the year and see how I want to continue forward. About all I can do.

110% I'm in a very similar boat to you and your thinking mirrors mine. To me, there are four indisputable facts:

1. Marketing and communication from Rivian has not been good. There has been very little goodwill or hype generated by it. There is a significantly larger amount of holes in information about the vehicles than nearly everyone expected there to be considering deliveries are theoretically scheduled to start in days.
2. The short "One Month" delay to deliveries is more complicated than how it initially appeared, and is likely longer than what you think. Early Rivian backers have been told to not expect their vehicles until late in Q3. The common wisdom regarding when LE orders would all be delivered is clearly not correct - to the tune of 6 months +/-. It's also extremely plausible that non-LE vehicles are facing a six month-ish delay. This is on top of the 2020 to 2021 multi-month delay already announced.
3. The R1T initially introduced has been slightly decontented. Gone are the 180 degree tailgate, any mention of L3 autonomy / lidar, electrocromatic roof, etc. While this is somewhat expected, it's disappointing nonetheless.
4. The initial rollout has not been confidence inspiring. Criteria for it, while communicated prior, appears to vastly favor individuals in highly targeted locales above all (to the detriment of everyone else) and has clearly shown the uber-limited amount of vehicles on the frontend. While both of these technically are in-line with what was expected, it's certainly not ideal from an average preorder deposit holder perspective, and frankly, further points out the previously identified comms and delay issues.

With all of these in mind, am I asking for my deposit back?

No, I am not. I am going to wait and I am going to observe. I have a very early deposit on an F150 Lightning in my pocket and while not content, I'm going to let it play out and I'm going to continue to call it as I see it - good and bad.


Finally, I find it absolutely astounding the lengths and contortions that a small portion of the population here go to explain away the above. While the vehicles look promising, and the manufacturer of them has potential, there are issues here that are not trending well, and likely to reoccur and impact the ownership experience in addition to the purchasing one.

I think we, as a group, owe it to ourselves to be slightly noisy and demanding. If Rivian are truly good at all aspects what they do, they will hopefully see the noise and take action to address it - not view it as something to be ignored but rather an opportunity to engage with their upcoming owner community to better respond and delight them.

When I read responses like, "JuSt gEt A rEfunD iF YoUr So UnHaPpY!" I take it as not only dismissive, insulting, and childish but also a bit harmful to anyone who will own a Rivian. If the manufacturer knows they have a weak, complacent community of owners they will 100% program for that rather than hitting that higher bar to better address the wishes of a group holding them more accountable.

 

[DucRider]

Order number does matter, but not the same way some want it to.
As an example, when they start looking to deliver into a given market (Texas, etc.), order date will certainly be a primary factor.
People seem to be OK that R1Ts are being delivered first. And choosing the LE puts you into a sooner delivery timeframe. Expectations of first come first served no matter what your location and configuration are (and always have been) unreasonable.

Lots of assumptions and leaping to conclusions lead to some people that getting pissed at Rivian for something they never promised (Thursday info dumps are a prime example). Rivian has never stated that Service Centers were driving delivery locations, only service availability (which doesn't actually require a service center). It can also be a chicken and egg situation, they could be prioritizing getting service center openings for the markets they chose to enter first (Seattle with the Amazon ties is a no brainer).

If you expect Rivian to be like Tesla (or any other manufacturer), you will be either disappointed or thrilled. The ones on this thread that are "pissed" expect them to behove differently than they have shown to be their philosophy from the outset. That they are taking a new and different approach without the wild hype and projections so common as to be expected is what attracted many to the brand to begin with. The hard lock down on info until they deem it time to release it is ingrained in their culture and part of the Rivian "experience". Being noisy and demanding on a forum has zero chance of changing their corporate culture. The vocal minority does serve to drive some of the people enthusiastic about the company and product away from participating in the forum.

I like the fact that Rivian is looking long term. Delivering into select markets first makes complete business sense on so many levels that I would question any other approach. Instead of creating doubts about Rivians viability, it is reassuring. YMMV.

They can't tell you what they don't know. The wide delivery windows being given are completely understandable. Some (many?) LE reservation holders will delay finalizing until after they test drive tour. Some of those will switch to other configurations or never convert. They have ramp up goals, but when and where those vehicles will be delivered is still very much a work in progress and the initial Guide contacts are a way to gauge that. Talking to a variety of reservation holders over a range of order dates will give the best information for forecasting.
Production volume is dependent on many factors - some in and some out of Rivians control. Hiring plant workers and supply chain issues are problematic in many industries toady, and a startup is probably impacted to a greater degree.

Tesla with the Model S rollout promised 5K deliveries by the end of 2012 (the first deliveries were a handful in June). The goal of 50% of the 10K reservation holders meant they did not really have the option of significant geographic selectivity. Reality was they "delivered" a bit over 3K by having customers complete the paperwork to count them as "sales" before the vehicles were actually physically delivered to the customer. I think it very likely that Rivians more measured approach will result in a faster ramp and 3-4 times the number of vehicles delivered than Tesla achieved in their 1st 1/2 year. And it will be with two models (three models and ~ 5x volume if you count the Amazon Vans).

Polestar took reservations from anywhere, but will only fulfill them within 150 miles of their "spaces". If you want to take delivery anyway, it's on you to bring it back to them if a problem arises. At rollout, that meant a couple of CA locations (plus Miami and NY?). They have added more, and hope to have 15 US locations by the end of the year. They certainly didn't tell people making reservations where the first locations and deliveries would occur.

Lucid has made no statement about the delivery process that I have seen, but since their target is 277 vehicles at $170K a pop in 2021, that almost certainly means they will not be geographically rolling out. If Rivian was only targeting shipping a few hundred vehicles this year, then certainly by order date would make sense.

Rivian is making all the moves required to build a long term sustainable business and not looking to push as many vehicles out as fast as they possibly can and try to fix any issues complaints later. Their measured approach may be frustrating, but I see it as a good approach. I'm looking forward to seeing them in person at a test drive event later this year. I pop in occasionally to see if the tone on this forum has changed. No bueno so far. I have better things to do with my time then engage with snowflakes playing the victim. Finding others with the same butt hurt perspective seems to help them validate their feelings. Carry on, as you were, etc., etc.

Edited to strike out non-productive comments (they may be true, but don't contribute to a healthy discussion).

 

[Gshenderson]

People seem to be OK that R1Ts are being delivered first. And choosing the LE puts you into a sooner delivery timeframe. Expectations of first come first served no matter what your location and configuration are (and always have been) unreasonable.

So why are most folks OK with that? IMO opinion it’s because they were very clear, concise and specific in their communications about it. They didn’t say “one of the models will ship before the other”. They said “The R1T will ship first.” And we didn’t see a lot of R1S res holders complaining about it. Same with LE vs. non-LE. Very specific comms. This allowed people to make decision based on the specific information. How delivery location and options affect your delivery timing and guide contact? All we know is that they do. They won’t tell us how. Vague, confusing and frustrating comms.

Being noisy and demanding on a forum has zero chance of changing their corporate culture. The vocal minority does serve to drive some of the people enthusiastic about the company and product away from participating in the forum.

Opinion stated as fact.

They can't tell you what they don't know.

Are you suggesting that they don’t know which locations they plan to ship to first? Or which colors or options they plan to ship to first? Or what are the criteria for contacting pre-order holders. IMO, they know all of this, but for whatever bizarre reason, they are choosing not to share it.

I have better things to do with my time then engage with snowflakes playing the victim.

Resorting to name calling is always a solid fallback when your argument lacks merit. ?‍

Have a great day Duc!

 

[cc84]

As an example, when they start looking to deliver into a given market (Texas, etc.), order date will certainly be a primary factor.
People seem to be OK that R1Ts are being delivered first. And choosing the LE puts you into a sooner delivery timeframe. Expectations of first come first served no matter what your location and configuration are (and always have been) unreasonable.

To start things off, I am now set to expect my LE delivery no later than June 21, 2022. I hope I get it way sooner, such as in 2021, but I can't moan, groan, or complain until that date. I do have a backup plan. That said, some people aren't going to care much for my comments. I'm willing to express my opinion, speculations and vent my frustrations, while apologizing to those it may offend. I'm not intentionally trying to offend. The only way to get rid of my venting and commenting is to Ignore, the Administrator blocks me, or I get my Rivian. ? Believe me, one day I will go away and I hope it's "very, very, soon."

I agree that "first come, first serve" needs to be flexible, but my concern is hoping this won't happen to very recent order dates jumping way ahead of line. Not saying it has, or will, but hoping it doesn't. Such as someone getting his Rivian 2-1/2 years ahead of the earliest next in line. I think even one year in advance is too much.

I'm okay with R1T's being delivered first, as we were told this pretty close to the beginning. But, as far as "LE puts you into a sooner delivery timeframe", I am under the impression the Max Pack will be produced and delivered sometime around Jan 2022 and the LE's will not complete their deliveries until no later than June 21, 2022. So, some Max Packs will likely be delivered before the LE's deliveries have been completed. Something seems wrong about that too, however the Max Pack should have been included with the original LE, IMO. Rivian chose not to. I don't know the reason. We really don't know for sure about anything I just said above, because why? It hasn't been thoroughly explained, that I know about. I'm speculating.

Rivian has never stated that Service Centers were driving delivery locations, only service availability (which doesn't actually require a service center). It can also be a chicken and egg situation, they could be prioritizing getting service center openings for the markets they chose to enter first (Seattle with the Amazon ties is a no brainer).

In my reply, I said it looks like delivery locations are determined because of Service Centers, but I don't know that and most likely won't because I doubt we will receive this information. You say it could be because of Amazon's ties to Seattle. Same with Ford's ties to Texas. Ford may not want Rivian entering into Ford Country, or any of their major truck sales states, until they start production on the F-150 Lightning, in Spring 2022. I don't know that either and we won't be told. It's all speculation. You speculate, I speculate. Why do we speculate? Lack of clarity.

I like the fact that Rivian is looking long term. Delivering into select markets first makes complete business sense on so many levels that I would question any other approach. Instead of creating doubts about Rivians viability, it is reassuring. YMMV.

You and I agree. It wouldn't make sense for a company to look short term. And, I agree it makes business sense to enter into select markets too. Why is this top secret, so that we can't know where these select markets are? Why do we not know the future locations? I would like to have known whenever they made this decision. If Amazon had anything to do with it, as you suggest it's possible, then they probably knew the day I placed my reservation, 28 months ago.

They can't tell you what they don't know.

And, they won't tell you what they know. However, they will tell you what they want you to know.

Production volume is dependent on many factors - some in and some out of Rivians control. Hiring plant workers and supply chain issues are problematic in many industries toady, and a startup is probably impacted to a greater degree.

Agreed. They could communicate this to us, if this is truly a problem of theirs, but they choose not to. If they don't tell me it's a problem, then I'm guessing it's not, wheras you may guess it is.

Rivian is making all the moves required to build a long term sustainable business and not looking to push as many vehicles out as fast as they possibly can and try to fix any issues complaints later. Their measured approach may be frustrating, but I see it as a good approach. I'm looking forward to seeing them in person at a test drive event later this year. I pop in occasionally to see if the tone on this forum has changed. No bueno so far. I have better things to do with my time then engage with snowflakes playing the victim. Finding others with the same butt hurt perspective seems to help them validate their feelings. Carry on, as you were, etc., etc.

You were doing really well until your last statements, with name calling (in Bold print). However, I do appreciate your willingness to share a different perspective. I have no problem with what you stated, it's just myself, and some others, have a different perspective.

You can call whatever names you wish, snowflakes, butt hurt, etc. It won't change anyone's mind. In this thread, we were discussing amongst ourselves the frustrations some are feeling. You're completely welcome, on my behalf, to jump in anytime. I'm sure you do have better things to do with your time, than being involved in this thread. Me and you both, or I should have better things to do. ? Thanks for your time and opinions.

 

[Doublemfarms]

??‍

 

[Whataboykie!]

Would you rather take delivery and when it breaks down you can't drive it for weeks or months because there is no service available anywhere near where you live?

Order # DOES matter. It just matters less than infrastructure.

The real question/issue for me is why infrastructure is trailing so far behind delivery targets.

That's the risk I am willing to take.

 

[prestapost]

I get the idea of shipping to locations closer to service centers first, and even understand the idea of batching certain configurations--but I am still pretty disappointed with how Rivian has handled it. I do think Rivian could be more transparent about what impact locations, colors and configuration choices will make on your estimated delivery date.

Would that mean I would switch to blue? Maybe not.

Would it make me feel better about Rivian and waiting for the configuration I want? Absolutely

 

[Temerarius]

"Said some stuff"

So... are you saying that every manufacturer needs to be explicit as to what state, city, and dealer will be getting the first batches?

Because, that's not how it works.. that's not how any of that works... even in a legacy dealership model. Even they get allotments and have no idea until closer to delivery what they will have.

Even Ford doesn't do what you are asking

I went through this when I ordered my Durango back in 2013 (2014 MY... all new and updated, hence not picking off the lot), the dealer eventually coughed up a VIN... well after the date we were promised a delivery date by Dodge, and we still had no idea on it's arrival date until 3 days before it came in on a train.

 

[Temerarius]

Uhhh... 100% true, I went through the process 3x.

Got a VIN and delivery date on that order for MY22 Audi (not MY21)?

And, as the link and supportive articles state, even a big ole legacy maker, still has issues communicating.

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