Who else is pissed that order # doesn't matter?

[Inkedsphynx]

No way you could possibly know how anything affects my planning and you are incorrect in your assessment. How it affects your planning, does not translate into how it affects mine. You have no idea what my current situation is, but you're rather bold in telling me, that only an exact delivery-date would suffice. ?

I see you're located in Washington state, where some deliveries may be headed first. Not positive, as none of us know for sure, but if so, my congratulations to you, if you happen to be contacted.

I'd love an explanation of how you are effectively planning around "Soon". I had planned to have an R1T in my driveway this to next month. It didn't happen. Several months ahead of that I had to change my planning. Every day that goes by that I'm not contacted (I'm a 2020 order, so I won't be in the first batch regardless) I have to change my planning.

The only way I could make a concrete plan and stop changing it would be if they gave me a specific and exact delivery date.

Had I received this information, I could have made my planning sooner, than when I did.

I'm curious how your planning process is vastly different from mine. I don't consider changing my planning every other day very 'effective'. More like 'necessary'. Do you feel you have an effective plan right now? If so, why are you complaining about the lack of information impacting your ability to plan?

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[Temerarius]

While I totally understand the frustration of the order number not dictating delivery order, I also fully understand that the last thing Rivian wants to have is someone in Two Dot Montana (real place) suffer a breakdown or issue, be told "A repair/recovery crew is on the way, they will be dispatched from Seattle or Chicago... sit tight for 2-3 days".

There's press, and then there's bad press.

They need to make sure that where they are targeting for initial delivery's not only offers Service Centers to address technical issues, broken stuff, and breakdowns, but is also somewhere that they can dispatch several vehicles at once (it doesn't make sense fiscally to send a train or delivery semi out with *a* vehicle on it when they can dispatch 10-100 in a single shot to a major metropolitan area).

While they will spin up Mobile Services, that is also an investment area that they would (rightfully) target for the largest markets.

Eventually they will get their support and delivery network built up, but Tesla is still doing this... 10 years in. If we are trying to compare them to a legacy car maker with a massive service and delivery network (Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc...), they have a 100+ year headstart on building out the infrastructure to support this effort.

To put this into perspective, Ford is dropping $30 Billion into just their electrification efforts, that's 5x what Rivian has to do everything (building a workforce, spinning up production, building out a charging network, building out a service and delivery infrastructure, etc...).

If you are expecting a legacy level of planning and service out of the gate, you are looking at the wrong car. Those of us that bought Tesla can well attest to buying a net new/startup vehicle... expect bumps.. lots of them. You are an early adopter of a brand new product from a brand new company.

If you want to be able to plan and have an easy go of it with minimal bumps along the road and communication issues, honestly, look to Ford, GM, etc...

 

[MurryR1T]

There should absolutely be some optimization of orders based on where you live, configuration etc..

My issue continues to be the order number. I have read and re-read my initial emails, what’s currently listed on Rivian.com, what people have posted here as well as other various sites. The wording talks time you order, where you live and configuration as part of delivery timing.

The challenge is this, if I live in a major metropolitan area in a state that is known for trucks (Texas) and someone that lives in Washington state that ordered nearly a year after me gets contacted and given a timeframe for delivery all because there is a service center being built there how does my order date figure in?

It doesn’t..

While a person with a few months difference from mine would be agonizing it would still make sense. In my view I am being punished because I live in a state that doesn’t have a Service Center. It’s not like they could not have built one, there are certainly plenty of cities, opportunities, and buildings to choose from.

If Rivian would come out and say we are focusing entirely on certain regions due to lack of service centers or wanting to have a lot of vehicles on the road in a few select cities to concentrate on whatever issues may arise that would be fine and make sense, but of course they never will and that is part of my frustration. I can understand the challenges but without an actual representative coming out and telling us it is just speculation. This company forces us to do a lot of speculating without verification.

my .02 for the day

 

[RWerksman]

While I totally understand the frustration of the order number not dictating delivery order, I also fully understand that the last thing Rivian wants to have is someone in Two Dot Montana (real place) suffer a breakdown or issue, be told "A repair/recovery crew is on the way, they will be dispatched from Seattle or Chicago... sit tight for 2-3 days".

There's press, and then there's bad press.

I hear what you're saying, but your argument is a straw man. They appear to be cherry picking orders from 3-4 specific locations where there are orders from hundreds of major metropolitan.

For instance, here are the top 50 metro areas in the US. Is Rivian is too cheap, too slow, or too incompetent to focus on a rollout to all of these from the jump? I sure hope not. If they are, it's a terrible sign for anyone who purchases one.



I'm not sure what they're doing, but whatever it is isn't instilling confidence.

 

[Temerarius]

I hear what you're saying, but your argument is a straw man. They appear to be cherry picking orders from 3-4 specific locations where there are orders from hundreds of major metropolitan.

For instance, here are the top 50 metro areas in the US. Is Rivian is too cheap, too slow, or too incompetent to focus on a rollout to all of these from the jump? I sure hope not. If they are, it's a terrible sign for anyone who purchases one.

It's actually an established process.

Tesla did the exact same thing.

If your position is, "They should open Service Centers and Show Rooms and do deliveries in all 50 major metropolitan centers in the US all at once", I would refer you back to my point about funding being a finite resource, and especially so for a startup. They have to drop cash on this infrastructure where it makes the most sense.

In the case of Seattle/Washington/Pacific Northwest, it may literally be that there are vastly more orders here, in this area then anywhere else in the US. So, they can either build out where the customer base is, or burn cash where customers aren't or aren't there yet.

It may also well be impacted by state laws around the purchase and delivery of a vehicle to a consumer.

Or, all of the above.

Again, if you are buying a Rivian, you are an early adopter, not every town in the US had an Apple store to go get your phone fixed or to go buy a new one from day one... all products have roll outs (even software).

 

[cc84]

If you are expecting a legacy level of planning and service out of the gate, you are looking at the wrong car. Those of us that bought Tesla can well attest to buying a net new/startup vehicle... expect bumps.. lots of them. You are an early adopter of a brand new product from a brand new company.

If you want to be able to plan and have an easy go of it with minimal bumps along the road and communication issues, honestly, look to Ford, GM, etc...

You nailed it. There within lies the problem. Those of you that bought Tesla's have the advantage over us that haven't. You knew all along how this was going to pan out. I didn't, but I possibly do now, ever since the end of May. Not positive though, until the deliveries actually start.

I drive trucks. I know nothing about Tesla's, other than the fact my daughter just bought a Tesla Y, instead of a Rivian because she didn't want to wait for the R1S. I don't follow Tesla and I won't be buying their future truck.

As you stated, maybe look towards Ford, the Ford F-150 Lightening is my plan B, with a reservation. Ford is the overall winner here. They're in a win-win situation. Ford has a stake in Rivian, so whichever you buy is a win for them. First available for me. Maybe both. ?

 

[MisterTea]

As someone who was probably one of the last LE pre-orderers, I am fine with it... ?

 

[cc84]

The only way I could make a concrete plan and stop changing it would be if they gave me a specific and exact delivery date.

It's okay if it works for you, but doesn't need to be for me. I may be a little more flexible.

I'm curious how your planning process is vastly different from mine........

Do you feel you have an effective plan right now?

For me, my planning process is done within my current situation in life. Age, financial security, etc. Yours is most likely not the same as mine, and yes I do have an effective plan, that will most definitely work, no doubt.

If so, why are you complaining about the lack of information impacting your ability to plan?

I have no problems, because I don't care any longer. I only mentioned that I wish information would have been provided sooner, so I could have made other arrangements then. I'm set now. I see you viewing my comments as "complaining". Sorry about that. I view it as stating what information I would like to have received, but didn't.

Why will they not release the locations where the shipments will be sent first and the process in which determines this? Maybe they think we don't care, not a priority to keep us informed, hide behind their Guides, none of our business, it'll deter reservations, etc. There is a reason why. Any answer, other than from Rivian, is pure speculation.....and this is what I'm doing, that could be avoided with more transparency/communication. I'll even except none of your business......then see what happens.

 

[RWerksman]

It's actually an established process.

Tesla did the exact same thing.

What the hell are you talking about? Tesla delivered the first 1,000 roadsters to 43 different states and 23 different countries. Here is a link. Look it up.

If your position is, "They should open Service Centers and Show Rooms and do deliveries in all 50 major metropolitan centers in the US all at once", I would refer you back to my point about funding being a finite resource, and especially so for a startup. They have to drop cash on this infrastructure where it makes the most sense.

My position is they need to focus on the largest metro areas nationwide, absolutely. When you start mass production, and if you've been taking deposits nationwide, you need to deliver nationwide. If you won't do that / can't do that, you shouldn't have taken deposits to begin with or, you know, at minimum should have spelled it out better so it doesn't have optics like you suckered anyone.

Just to be clear though, I think they are at the very, very, very tip of the spear when it comes to shipping vehicles. They are cherry-picking because supply is uber tight.

If this trend continues - if it's say a month from now and they are still delivering only to your area, SF and Boston, that's a problem. Loads of people that have been patiently waiting in line since 2018 are just going to feel more and more and more slighted. That goodwill that any manufacturer needs just wont be there.

 

[cc84]

When you start mass production, and if you've been taking deposits nationwide, you need to deliver nationwide. If you won't do that / can't do that, you shouldn't have taken deposits to begin with or, you know, at minimum should have spelled it out better so it doesn't have optics like you suckered anyone.

I agree. Now I'll speculate once again. They may have needed a constant stream of reservations flowing in, throughout the US, in order to attract additional investors, such as Amazon, Ford, Cox Automotive, T. Rowe Price, Blackrock, etc....They didn't want to release any information to the public, that could possibly cause some future reservationists to shy away. Rivian would deal with any fallout later, which appears to be happening.

A good strategy to combat the fallout, IMO, is to neither confirm, nor deny, ignore, and stay silent. It will eventually go away. I suspect this is a pretty good strategy, as it could possibly work, once production and deliveries begin. I'm seeing some folks upset and making backup plans, but I don't see anyone turning in their reservations. Appears to be a Seller's market. As long as we want their product, we'll do whatever is necessary to get it and vent our frustrations whenever necessary.....That said, I agree with your statement.

 

[SANZC02]

What the hell are you talking about? Tesla delivered the first 1,000 roadsters to 43 different states and 23 different countries. Here is a link. Look it up.


My position is they need to focus on the largest metro areas nationwide, absolutely. When you start mass production, and if you've been taking deposits nationwide, you need to deliver nationwide. If you won't do that / can't do that, you shouldn't have taken deposits to begin with or, you know, at minimum should have spelled it out better so it doesn't have optics like you suckered anyone.

Just to be clear though, I think they are at the very, very, very tip of the spear when it comes to shipping vehicles. They are cherry-picking because supply is uber tight.

If this trend continues - if it's say a month from now and they are still delivering only to your area, SF and Boston, that's a problem. Loads of people that have been patiently waiting in line since 2018 are just going to feel more and more and more slighted. That goodwill that any manufacturer needs just wont be there.

Not sure you want to hitch your wagon to this horse, they only built 2600 roadsters in 4 years. First 2 months of production they built 3. Took them 6 months to deliver 27. I'm hoping Rivian will do quite a bit better than that in the first 6 months.

 

[Temerarius]

What the hell are you talking about? Tesla delivered the first 1,000 roadsters to 43 different states and 23 different countries. Here is a link. Look it up.

Ya really want to stick to your guns on this one?

1,000 cars took 2 YEARS to hit all of those locales.

To follow your logic, they needed to geofence their ordering to specific cities +/- a hundred miles or so. You think people are pissed now that they have to wait, can you imagine how pissed (and a marketing/press/investment nightmare) people would be if they went to go buy one and were told to FOAD, we'll get to you later.

My guess, they open up the ordering and see if their market research was right, they cook down their primary markets, focus Service Centers/Galleries in those areas and support it with the bulk of the first waves going there. This in turn starts actual cash flow and generates actual sales which allows them to reinvest in the company (again, remember my point on finite cash flow?), and also gives them a positive (or at least less bleeding cash) balance sheet to go to their investors for either another funding round or go right for IPO... to raise cash to... wait for it... invest in the company and build out yet more infrastructure to reach and support those markets better they could not in the first wave.

That's not to say that folks that ordered in 2018, 2019, or even 2020 will have to wait to this point, I fully believe Rivian is in a vastly, vastly better position than Tesla was at this same point in their lifecycle and am confident most folks will have their orders in their driveways within 6-9 months. But I do believe, that for some markets, it may literally be 6+ months for Rivian to get the rigs to folks due to either infrastructure issues (delivery network, service centers, etc...) or due to the asinine dealer franchise laws impeding folks being able to actually take delivery of their vehicle in their city, county, state (Case in point why Texas pre-orders may not be at the top of the "to be delivered list": Tesla Will Have to Ship Its Texas-Built Cars Out of State to Sell Back to Residents (thedrive.com)).

As I said before, there are many, many factors that are most likely in play as to when vehicles will be delivered to folks that preordered, your order number is just one of those factors, but far from the determining factor.

 

[RWerksman]

Not sure you want to hitch your wagon to this horse, they only built 2600 roadsters in 4 years. First 2 months of production they built 3. Took them 6 months to deliver 27. I'm hoping Rivian will do quite a bit better than that in the first 6 months.

Yeah - they better ramp up faster. To be fair though, I'm expecting similar low numbers in July, and maybe August.

The point I'm making is if Tesla could ship just 1,000 units of it's first vehicle all across the US and actually support it, Rivian can as well. Tesla sure as hell didn't have service centers everywhere to do that. They had techs in trucks and partner service centers.

This whole fascination with Rivian Service Centers™ is just us heathens filling an information void. We don't know the exact circumstances surrounding the delivery plan is, and that, frankly, sucks.

Am I torqued because the order number isn't the only criteria? Not really. Do I want better purchase and delivery timing for myself and others here? Hell yeah, especially for the folks that aren't ordering LE vehicles or are waiting for the max pack.

 

[Temerarius]

Hell yeah, especially for the folks that aren't ordering LE vehicles or are waiting for the max pack.

Not disagreeing with you, it would be great if they could, in July, deliver all 80k (or however many orders they have) in one big push, but, I suspect it will be several months due to many factors.

Devils advocate, the order info only says "Delivery start in July", technically, if one person gets their R1T on July 30... Rivian didn't lie (dick move, but they didn't lie).

I am in that latter group by the way (Max Pack), I know it says Jan for delivery to start, and even though I am in the Seattle area, I'm still not expecting to hear anything until Feb or March and am fencing out plans accordingly with my long term plan being "I won't see this thing in my driveway until June of 2022).

 

[Gshenderson]

Ya really want to stick to your guns on this one?

1,000 cars took 2 YEARS to hit all of those locales.

To follow your logic, they needed to geofence their ordering to specific cities +/- a hundred miles or so. You think people are pissed now that they have to wait, can you imagine how pissed (and a marketing/press/investment nightmare) people would be if they went to go buy one and were told to FOAD, we'll get to you later.

My guess, they open up the ordering and see if their market research was right, they cook down their primary markets, focus Service Centers/Galleries in those areas and support it with the bulk of the first waves going there. This in turn starts actual cash flow and generates actual sales which allows them to reinvest in the company (again, remember my point on finite cash flow?), and also gives them a positive (or at least less bleeding cash) balance sheet to go to their investors for either another funding round or go right for IPO... to raise cash to... wait for it... invest in the company and build out yet more infrastructure to reach and support those markets better they could not in the first wave.

That's not to say that folks that ordered in 2018, 2019, or even 2020 will have to wait to this point, I fully believe Rivian is in a vastly, vastly better position than Tesla was at this same point in their lifecycle and am confident most folks will have their orders in their driveways within 6-9 months. But I do believe, that for some markets, it may literally be 6+ months for Rivian to get the rigs to folks due to either infrastructure issues (delivery network, service centers, etc...) or due to the asinine dealer franchise laws impeding folks being able to actually take delivery of their vehicle in their city, county, state (Case in point why Texas pre-orders may not be at the top of the "to be delivered list": Tesla Will Have to Ship Its Texas-Built Cars Out of State to Sell Back to Residents (thedrive.com)).

As I said before, there are many, many factors that are most likely in play as to when vehicles will be delivered to folks that preordered, your order number is just one of those factors, but far from the determining factor.

If the above is indeed the situation, then why won’t they simply tell us that? “We’ll be rolling out by geo based on service capability and here’s our plan for that.” with some specifics on the where and when. They have this information, and I can see absolutely no advantage to them in keeping it this mystery and leaving us to speculate based on sleuthing job postings and constructions permits. The ONLY rational explanation I can come up with for the continued secrecy is that the truth is counter to what they want us to believe. My biggest concerns have nothing to do with delays, priority or anything else related to the operational side of their business. Most of understand and might even expect how challenging it is. Many issues are also beyond their control. But what is in their control, and what they’ve chosen not to do for whatever reason, is open,y and transparently communicate with their most ardent fans and preorder holders. A completely avoidable and unnecessary failure on their part, IMO.

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