When will Rivian admit that avoiding AA/Carplay is not about providing "better" UX?

[SSteveEV]

It’s actually pretty easy to get suggestions to someone at Rivian if you can’t find it here you can hop over to Rivian stories and do some searches. Hint: guides can be incredibly useful.

yea they are working on the ones they feel are important, multiple updates have improved my user experience in the last 10 months, if your desires aren’t met I wouldn’t want you to feel “forced” into purchasing a Rivian.

Anytime someone asks about my R1T I say I love it and that they nailed the hardware side but have been working on the software.
Happy with the improvements but biggest frustrations are things that shouldn't have been issues before a release:
1. Functioning HVAC logic.
2. Offline music from onboard storage (be it built in or a USBc drive).
3. Vampire drain- this is just half a point because it'll forever be a area for improvement but right now they are not even close with other manufacturers. Can you imagine the service center power bills just from VD alone?

1 is a requirement, 2 is low hanging fruit for an adventure vehicle. They addressed snow mode and have slightly improved HVAC but so far in a year they haven't checked all the minimums I expected.
To them: Keep up the good work I know we all have different priorities but HVAC helps everyone so please fix that before we start roasting this summer.

Sorry, is this not the thread to unload everything?

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[graemebshaw]

Quick question: does the current UX allow you to conduct Zoom, Teams or Googlemeet calls from your phone? I assume it works through the Bluetooth, but have been in some cars where that doesn’t work reliably with those apps for some reason.

 

[Trandall]

I don’t understand the comments about revenue and subscriptions, there aren’t any non profit auto manufacturers, of course they would look for ways to make money. Subscriptions for more vehicle function has been a thing for more than a decade.

Well actually Rivian has so far been a non profit auto manufacture and there are others. Just had to throw that out there... carry on with the pitchforks.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Well actually Rivian has so far been a non profit auto manufacture and there are others. Just had to throw that out there... carry on with the pitchforks.

Non-profit generating is not the same thing as non-profit or not-for-profit.

 

[rivian_germany]

The reverse is true. Apple is pushing auto manufacturers to give up the entire experience to them with the next generation of carplay. Why would any big automotive company even consider that?

Sounds like a great strategy by Apple. Why build their own car when they can slowly take over all the other cars in the world?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Sounds like a great strategy by Apple. Why build their own car when they can slowly take over all the other cars in the world?

Making a car is incredibly difficult. Ask Foxconn about how the Lordstown production is going.

 

[Riztnack]

I would prefer Carplay.

 

[Trandall]

Non-profit generating is not the same thing as non-profit or not-for-profit.

I know I'm just trying to add some color commentary to the $h!+ show that is this ridiculous never ending debate.
On a side note I'm thinking about starting a thread demanding improved quantity and quality of cup holders in the R1T via OTA update... who's with me!

 

[moosehead]

Shall we do an anonymous poll to maintain election integrity?








J/K.

 

[Zoidz]

Sounds like a great strategy by Apple. Why build their own car when they can slowly take over all the other cars in the world?

Exactly. Some complain about Rivian having profit motives for developing their own UI. Why did Apple develop CarPlay? One reason - to sell more iPhones and maintain/increase marketshare.

I'm a long time Apple user, perhaps a modest fanboi. I had a private demo with John Sculley (yeah the "Sugar Water" guy who wrecked Apple) of some Mac software our company developed in the 80s. I have owned Apple stock for decades so I have a vested interest in the company. BUT I neither like nor hate CP, it's a "meh" for me.

Of course, perhaps this CP discussion is moot if Apple winds up buying Rivian, if Rivian gets into irreversible financial trouble as some ANALysts predict.

 

[Zoidz]

I know I'm just trying to add some color commentary to the $h!+ show that is this ridiculous never ending debate.
On a side note I'm thinking about starting a thread demanding improved quantity and quality of cup holders in the R1T via OTA update... who's with me!

There was a brawl/cat fight recently regarding cupholder count in another forum. If you think people are passionate about CP/AA, the soccer mom/dad cupholder critics have them beat.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

LOL. “I don’t want this feature, and don’t want anyone else to have it, and if you dare suggest you might want it, I’ll block you “across all platforms.”” Mature.

It's more like I'm so sick and tired of seeing people in the line at McDonalds demanding a whopper that I'm calling a tow truck to have them pulled out of the way. Personally, I'm not blocking anyone except spam bots because I don't need to. I am really tired of the constant bloviating over CarPlay though.

For those of you who hate this topic. It’s clear what it is by the title. Why the F do you click and read it? How does that make any sense? And not only that, you reply ? You really need to get your heads checked.
most been proven time and time again that RIVIAN listens to its buyers and makes changes. As resistant as they are to this, with enough push, they’ll bend.
I also think it’s hilarious that the haters say CarPlay sucks and have complaints that make it extremely obvious they don’t own an iPhone and have never actually used CarPlay. Seriously folks, control your anger. It makes you sound like a sociopath.

I have an iPhone, otherwise this weird phone shaped brick in my hand with the apple logo on the back is a pretty neat trick. I'm also typing this on an M1 MacBook Air. I don't hate apple products, quite the opposite but the implementation of CarPlay in my two year old 80K dollar Audi is abysmal. It crashes almost every time I get in the car and I have to reboot the system and repair it. I have driven both cars for about equal time now as a primary and I've had way less problems with the native Rivian system which is saying something as the Rivian system controls far more functions of the vehicle than just infotainment.

I honestly don't get what's so great about CarPlay for all you people. It's not good, it's just better than most native systems. I mean the navigation that comes native with my Audi is shittier than 2005 Garmin standards, of course CarPlay is going to be better than that. The search and scrolling on the Rivian one is as good as anything else. Sometimes the routing isn't perfect but even Google maps gives shitty directions on occasion. It's nice to have the integrated music apps so that I don't need to use my phone when I get in my car. That's a nice change for me.

I don't see how needing to have my cell phone because my car's UX is dog shit is a desirable situation or something we should be shooting for.

 

[SSteveEV]

There was a brawl/cat fight recently regarding cupholder count in another forum. If you think people are passionate about CP/AA, the soccer mom/dad cupholder critics have them beat.

What's wrong with seating for 5 and cupholders for 2?

 

[Zoidz]

Quick question: does the current UX allow you to conduct Zoom, Teams or Googlemeet calls from your phone? I assume it works through the Bluetooth, but have been in some cars where that doesn’t work reliably with those apps for some reason.

Here's the issue. Most (all?) states have specific laws making the display of video of any type on screens visible to the driver illegal. Additionally, Apple's CP approval guidelines set very specific limitations on what can be displayed on the screen as well. I pasted an excerpt of the restrictions at the end.

The live meeting apps would need to pass Apple's review process to work with CP. They include the ability to stream video of the meeting. Therefore, IMO, these apps would have to be updated by Zoom, etc. to either detect CP mode and eliminate the video (as well as other UI restrictions), or they would have to release a new app specifically for CP that meets the guidelines. Note #8 below. Apss must use SiriKit for voice interaction. That could be a significant rewrite issue for the meeting apps, but I am not familiar with those details.

CarPlay app guidelines
All CarPlay apps must adhere to the following guidelines.
Guidelines for all apps
1. Your CarPlay app must be designed primarily to provide the specified feature to a user (e.g.
CarPlay audio apps must be designed primarily to provide audio playback services, CarPlay
parking apps must be designed primarily to provide parking services, etc.).
2. Never instruct users to pick up their iPhone to perform a task. If there is an error condition,
such as a required log in, you can let users know about the condition so they can take action
when safe. However, user messages must not include wording that asks users to manipulate
their iPhone.
3. All CarPlay user flows must be possible without interacting with iPhone.
4. All CarPlay user flows must be meaningful to use while driving. Don’t include features in
CarPlay that aren’t related to the primary task (e.g. unrelated settings, maintenance features,
etc.).
5. No gaming or social networking.
6. Never show the content of messages, texts, or emails on the CarPlay screen.
7. Use templates for their intended purpose, and only populate templates with the specified
information types (e.g. a list template must be used to present a list for selection, album
artwork in the now playing screen must be used to show an album cover, etc.).
8. All voice interaction must be handled using SiriKit (with the exception of CarPlay navigation
apps, see below).
Additional guidelines for audio apps
1. Never show song lyrics on the CarPlay screen.
2. Text to speech systems (web readers, email readers, etc.) are not permitted.
2022-06-07 | Copyright © 2022 Apple Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Additional guidelines for communication (messaging and calling) apps
1. Communication apps must provide either short form text messaging features, VoIP calling
features, or both.
2. Email is not considered short form text messaging and is not permitted.
3. Communication apps that provide text messaging features must support all 3 of the
following SiriKit intents:
• Send a message (INSendMessageIntent)
• Request a list of messages (INSearchForMessagesIntent)
• Modify the attributes of a message (INSetMessageAttributeIntent)
4. Communication apps that provide VoIP calling features must support CallKit, and all of the
following SiriKit intents:
• Start a call (INStartCallIntent)
• Start an audio-only call (INStartAudioCallIntent) required for apps that support
iOS 14 and earlier
• Request a list of calls (INSearchCallHistoryIntent) required for apps that
support iOS 14 and earlier
2022-06-07 | Copyright © 2022 Apple Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Page of6 53


Additional guidelines for driving task apps
1. Driving task apps must enable tasks people need to do while driving. Tasks must actually
help with the drive, not just be tasks that are done while driving.
2. Driving task apps must use the provided templates to display information and provide
controls. Other kinds of CarPlay UI (e.g. custom maps, real-time video) are not possible.
3. Do not show CarPlay UI for tasks unrelated to driving (e.g. account setup, detailed settings).
4. Do not periodically refresh data items in the CarPlay UI more than once every 10 seconds
(e.g. no real-time engine data).
5. Do not periodically refresh points of interest in the POI template more than once every 60
seconds.
6. Do not create POI (point of interest) apps that are focused on finding locations on a map.
Driving tasks apps must be primarily designed to accomplish tasks and are not intended to
be location finders (e.g. store finders).
7. Use cases outside of the vehicle environment are not permitted.
Additional guidelines for EV charging apps
1. EV charging apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app
can’t just be a list of EV chargers).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than EV chargers.
Additional guidelines for fueling apps
1. Fueling apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app can’t
just be a list of fueling stations).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than fueling stations.
Additional guidelines for parking apps
1. Parking apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app can’t
just be a list of parking locations).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than parking.

 

[graemebshaw]

Here's the issue. Most (all?) states have specific laws making the display of video of any type on screens visible to the driver illegal. Additionally, Apple's CP approval guidelines set very specific limitations on what can be displayed on the screen as well. I pasted an excerpt of the restrictions at the end.

The live meeting apps would need to pass Apple's review process to work with CP. They include the ability to stream video of the meeting. Therefore, IMO, these apps would have to be updated by Zoom, etc. to either detect CP mode and eliminate the video (as well as other UI restrictions), or they would have to release a new app specifically for CP that meets the guidelines. Note #8 below. Apss must use SiriKit for voice interaction. That could be a significant rewrite issue for the meeting apps, but I am not familiar with those details.

CarPlay app guidelines
All CarPlay apps must adhere to the following guidelines.
Guidelines for all apps
1. Your CarPlay app must be designed primarily to provide the specified feature to a user (e.g.
CarPlay audio apps must be designed primarily to provide audio playback services, CarPlay
parking apps must be designed primarily to provide parking services, etc.).
2. Never instruct users to pick up their iPhone to perform a task. If there is an error condition,
such as a required log in, you can let users know about the condition so they can take action
when safe. However, user messages must not include wording that asks users to manipulate
their iPhone.
3. All CarPlay user flows must be possible without interacting with iPhone.
4. All CarPlay user flows must be meaningful to use while driving. Don’t include features in
CarPlay that aren’t related to the primary task (e.g. unrelated settings, maintenance features,
etc.).
5. No gaming or social networking.
6. Never show the content of messages, texts, or emails on the CarPlay screen.
7. Use templates for their intended purpose, and only populate templates with the specified
information types (e.g. a list template must be used to present a list for selection, album
artwork in the now playing screen must be used to show an album cover, etc.).
8. All voice interaction must be handled using SiriKit (with the exception of CarPlay navigation
apps, see below).
Additional guidelines for audio apps
1. Never show song lyrics on the CarPlay screen.
2. Text to speech systems (web readers, email readers, etc.) are not permitted.
2022-06-07 | Copyright © 2022 Apple Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Additional guidelines for communication (messaging and calling) apps
1. Communication apps must provide either short form text messaging features, VoIP calling
features, or both.
2. Email is not considered short form text messaging and is not permitted.
3. Communication apps that provide text messaging features must support all 3 of the
following SiriKit intents:
• Send a message (INSendMessageIntent)
• Request a list of messages (INSearchForMessagesIntent)
• Modify the attributes of a message (INSetMessageAttributeIntent)
4. Communication apps that provide VoIP calling features must support CallKit, and all of the
following SiriKit intents:
• Start a call (INStartCallIntent)
• Start an audio-only call (INStartAudioCallIntent) required for apps that support
iOS 14 and earlier
• Request a list of calls (INSearchCallHistoryIntent) required for apps that
support iOS 14 and earlier
2022-06-07 | Copyright © 2022 Apple Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Page of6 53


Additional guidelines for driving task apps
1. Driving task apps must enable tasks people need to do while driving. Tasks must actually
help with the drive, not just be tasks that are done while driving.
2. Driving task apps must use the provided templates to display information and provide
controls. Other kinds of CarPlay UI (e.g. custom maps, real-time video) are not possible.
3. Do not show CarPlay UI for tasks unrelated to driving (e.g. account setup, detailed settings).
4. Do not periodically refresh data items in the CarPlay UI more than once every 10 seconds
(e.g. no real-time engine data).
5. Do not periodically refresh points of interest in the POI template more than once every 60
seconds.
6. Do not create POI (point of interest) apps that are focused on finding locations on a map.
Driving tasks apps must be primarily designed to accomplish tasks and are not intended to
be location finders (e.g. store finders).
7. Use cases outside of the vehicle environment are not permitted.
Additional guidelines for EV charging apps
1. EV charging apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app
can’t just be a list of EV chargers).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than EV chargers.
Additional guidelines for fueling apps
1. Fueling apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app can’t
just be a list of fueling stations).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than fueling stations.
Additional guidelines for parking apps
1. Parking apps must provide meaningful functionality relevant to driving (e.g. your app can’t
just be a list of parking locations).
2. When showing locations on a map, do not expose locations other than parking.

Thanks for this! But my question is really whether the Rivian UX as it is today will allow me to stream the audio for a Zoom call to the car, or do I need to use a headset with my phone (which I have had to do in some cars)?

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