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johnking

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Unfortunately, I am one of those who paid for FSD for my 1st Tesla (MS). The lease was up. No exclusive FSD features saw the light of day. FSD is tied to the vehicle and obviously couldn't transfer to my new car. Bought my next Tesla (MX) and guess what I did not add ! You got it FSD ! The standard autopilot for staying within the lane, assisted cruise control is certainly enough on my daily ~60 mile of freeway commute. It helps in both the stop-go traffic clogs and cruising on the freeway uninterrupted. What do I miss from FSD ? Only the auto-lane change. Rest of it are gimmicks to be honest like the traffic light recognition etc.

When I bought FSD, the description on Tesla's website was something like this 'Your car will drive itself, pick you up and the driver doesn't have to do anything'.

Do I feel cheated ? Absolutely. Did I pay based on the definition of FSD on their website. Definitely. Did my common sense go out the door when I placed the order. 100% yes. Do I take responsibility ? Yes I do. I wish I used my common sense, informed myself better and did not get carried away by the 'promised coast to coast drive by Elon'. "Buy it now before the price goes up" is another tactic.

I learnt a lesson and I am happy without FSD. I have moved on.

Another point to note and this didn't affect me directly since I had leased my 1st Tesla. While trading in their old Teslas with FSD, Tesla did not add any value to the car due to FSD. Especially this is a bummer for owners who bought FSD as an over the air (OTA) update. The reasoning from Tesla was that they can add FSD to the car at no cost and therefore do not value it while trading it in. Happened to many of my colleagues and there was a public note on twitter from some prominent shareholder of Tesla to which Elon responded that he will look into it

I hope Rivian's driver+ is as good as Tesla's autopilot if not better with in-lane control, cruise control, lane changes, self parking etc. The software-first approach definitely shows promise but stellar execution is needed to beat the benchmark set-up by Tesla.

PS: I love my Tesla cars. The tech is amazing. Definitely the company could be more honest.


Rivian R1T R1S When is more detail on Driver+ going to come out? 1624153099845
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riviancanucknb

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I just got a Mach E and it has speed sign recognition in the basic LKAS/ACC. That feature can be selected on or off. Hands off BlueCruise is supposed to get enabled later this year.
This is why I want to know who their technology partner is for Driver+.

We know they are not doing it themselves because it's basically impossible to bootstrap this that quickly in house. They are sourcing Driver+ externally from someone.
 
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riviancanucknb

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Tesla admitted to the California DOT in 2021 about only being level 2 capable.
I don't know why you keep posting this. It's common knowledge Tesla is only level 2 capable now. Level 3 is in beta and level 4/5 in the works. And importantly it doesn't require any new hardware.

Driver+ from the sounds of it is only Level 2 at launch. Do they plan to get to Level 3 on current hardware? That is the whole point of this thread. Tesla's plans are obvious and clear. Rivian's are a black box.
 

ajdelange

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Did I buy FSD based on the promise? Yes.

Have I had enough experience with AI to know that the promise will not be fullfilled for a long time if ever? Yes.

Did I do it anyway? Yes.

Do I regret it? No, not really. Even the Level 2 is a big help in reducing driver fatigue and, evidently, I am safer driving with it than without it.

Can it be used outside the US? Yes. Any place where the lanes are marked.
 

CommodoreAmiga

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I don't know why you keep posting this. It's common knowledge Tesla is only level 2 capable now. Level 3 is in beta and level 4/5 in the works. And importantly it doesn't require any new hardware.
Nope. The importance of what Billyk24 said is that Tesla has admitted to the DOT that "FSD" will ONLY be level 2 capable. They have told the DOT that they NEVER plan to release anything more than level 2 under the current FSD system. Customers who have paid for "FSD" will NOT receive level 3, let alone 4/5.
 

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TessP100D

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Nope. The importance of what Billyk24 said is that Tesla has admitted to the DOT that "FSD" will ONLY be level 2 capable. They have told the DOT that they NEVER plan to release anything more than level 2 under the current FSD system. Customers who have paid for "FSD" will NOT receive level 3, let alone 4/5.
exactly.. FSD is a hyped fraud. Its just Elon’s wish list - mind thoughts. He thinks it would be ‘’cool’’ to have, and since he owns the company, he tells his engineers to work in it. it will never work and the really sad thing is a lot of people fell for the sales pitch. Many Enginnering type people right here on this site fell for it too. I can’t for the life of me understand how people can pay big money for a driver control system that doesn’t exist. It’s a complete fraud.

Tesla should should stop wasiting money on it, stop lying to potential buyers and refund everybody’s money.

Rivian buyers need to be aware so they don’t waste hard earned dollars on a fraud Idea.
 

ajdelange

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Well that's a little over the top. You have to understand that there is a lot of religion in AI. Elon's remarks on it today are not that different from Wiener's in the 50's. Amazing things are right around the corner. It is just that intelligence is an amazingly multifaceted thing and because of this the corner is always a little farther away than it at first appears.

I'm one of the engineering people here who ordered it (and would do so again) but I wouldn't say I fell for it. I'd say I went into it with my eyes open. I have heard the hype and I have seen what AI can do and the progress that has been made over the years. It is real. It works now. The problem is that it does not work perfectly and the way we are socially structured now if it fails once, even though it has saved hundreds of lives, it will be condemned. All it takes is one cracker cop in Texas saying the car crashed with no one in the front seat and there are calls to ban even Level 2. There will always be corner cases that AI can't handle and for social and legal acceptance that's not allowable. Level 5 will never arrive but that's going to be because of the press and lawyers, not technical problems.
 

Trandall

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I agree that Tesla is fast and loose with their marketing and implementation of driver assist features. Now that they have announced the elimination of radar system I'm curious how they plan to move forward. Are they developing and selling level 3+ system with stereo vision and no radar and if so are they going to continue to develop their system that uses radar to also be FSD like they owe the customers? I can't believe their is not a class action suit for consumers who paid thousands for a product to be delivered and the seller openly admits they have no way of delivering it now and don't intend to in the future.
 

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FSD might be a fraud but the highway autopilot stuff is amazing. 4 plus hour road trips are a breeze. My Tesla is AP1 which was launched pretty early in the Model S lifespan. If Rivian can just start by matching the Tesla AP1 capabilities then I think that will be a huge win. That would already be ahead of most all of the legacy companies.

Any sort of FSD is not in the near future from any manufacturer.
 

cwinters

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Given they have all these Prime delivery vans constantly going around recording road conditions everywhere, I think Rivian/Amazon is in a pretty good place to make driver+ a really nice feature.

AWS paired with all these connected sensors (cars, phones in cars, sidewalk, etc) is quite powerful.

Highways should be easy, it's the parking lot pickup at ball practice that AI is going to fail on.
 

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Billyk24

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FSD might be a fraud but the highway autopilot stuff is amazing. 4 plus hour road trips are a breeze. My Tesla is AP1 which was launched pretty early in the Model S lifespan. If Rivian can just start by matching the Tesla AP1 capabilities then I think that will be a huge win. That would already be ahead of most all of the legacy companies.

Any sort of FSD is not in the near future from any manufacturer.
That would already be ahead of most all of the legacy companies. AP1? Legacy companies already feature what auto pilot does and more on those models with such.
 

irish26

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That would already be ahead of most all of the legacy companies. AP1? Legacy companies already feature what auto pilot does and more on those models with such.
this is news to me. I recently bought a 2021 suburban and none of the American automakers had those functions on their flagship SUV’s. They have adapative cruise control and my buddies new Kia has very nice lane keep assist, but I haven’t seen something that I would trust for hundreds of miles at a time on the interstate.
 

godfodder0901

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this is news to me. I recently bought a 2021 suburban and none of the American automakers had those functions on their flagship SUV’s. They have adapative cruise control and my buddies new Kia has very nice lane keep assist, but I haven’t seen something that I would trust for hundreds of miles at a time on the interstate.
To be fair, he did say "flagship" and I don't consider the Suburban to be a flagship or halo product. Escalade would fill that role for GM and it does have available SuperCruise.
 

SeaGeo

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this is news to me. I recently bought a 2021 suburban and none of the American automakers had those functions on their flagship SUV’s. They have adapative cruise control and my buddies new Kia has very nice lane keep assist, but I haven’t seen something that I would trust for hundreds of miles at a time on the interstate.
My ID.4 has highway active assistant that's not far off from autopilot minus Lange changes. It does what I want for most fatigue reduction. I wish it took tight turns a bit better. Tesla has them on that, and FSD beta does do some pretty cool tricks in the city.

The mach E and F150 will have highway hands free within the year (allegedly). Tesla will not.
 

SeaGeo

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To be fair, he did say "flagship" and I don't consider the Suburban to be a flagship or halo product. Escalade would fill that role for GM and it does have available SuperCruise.
So does the bolt EUV. Lol
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