When did Rivian know that they would miss their production targets?

[SeaGeo]

However, if Rivian continues to miss on even their "intended" promises, it'll only hurt their reputation. And they'll need a good reputation to go against the competition because reputation, like brand, is an asset and a significant contributor to valuation.

Totally agree. To be honest, while Rivian fits my demographic pretty perfectly, I trust them to do right by me less than any other brand that I interact with that I can think of. Maybe Tesla with their recent scheduling issues, but I am also avoiding them. The only thing keeping my interest in an R1T is a lack of competition for a midsize Pickup EV and a large SUV. The latter of which seems to be getting addressed pretty quickly here by manufacturers like Volvo. If Ford had released a maverick or ranger Lightning variant, I'd be grabbing that and not looking back - purely from a lack of trust.

And to be clear, it's not the delays that bother me. It's the arrogance to not communicate delays until after the fact, and not having the ethics or corporate flexibility for literally anyone at Rivian to tell Carter's guide "yeah, tell your dude he's not getting a truck so he's not shit up a creek." Luckily he's a pretty relaxed guy obviously, but if I was in his shoes, I'd be looking for RJ's personal email address to forward my spouse's anger to him.

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[Forager]

yeah, that's not an excuse for not doing TI's on their service centers. We have been about as busy as possible in the construction and engineering industry over the last two years even in the parts of the Country still being cautious about COVID. I suspect they were trying to delay putting funds into capital that isn't working until the last possible minute. That's been my general sense for their ramp up for months. That would also explain why they haven't seemingly stockpiled materials in Normal having known their demand exceeded a year+ capacity for who knows how long.

Yep. Taking a page out of the Amazon book. A dollar saved is a dollar (or more earned). When it comes to growth companies, you massively want to limit capital expenditures, even if it costs you more later.

 

[_evtrk]

What you suggest makes sense that they were reluctant to commit capital (of which now they have plenty). Service centers should have started months earlier as well as the stockpiling of key components. Oh well time lost, hopefully they can accelerate before the onslaught of competition arrives.

Yea, look at lucid for example, some of their sales/service centers have been open more than a year before they started deliveries. I dont understand how rivian didnt do the same, or even have the techs hired with enough time to train to at least have their mobile service ready in time.

 

[Ralph]

This is the biggest logistical miss for me. Unless their strategy changed fairly late, I think they knew all along waiting for service centers was the plan. And it is much harder to blame service center construction delays on covid. Yes yes I know some places shut down, but in others (Atlanta) there has been much less disruption to the construction industry. They could easily have started the Atlanta service center 6-12 mos earlier and it could have been done by now.

At the risk of sounding like I am defending Rivian's continued delays and poor communication, it may well be that IPO money was needed to sign contracts for construction. Another poster suggests that they should have stocked parts in advance given their back log of orders.

And of course they should have already hired the 1500 people they needed to hire a couple of weeks ahead of the IPO, right? They need over 1700 people right now.

Food for thought: These commitments for real estate/construction, human resources, parts, robots all take money, hence the IPO. Yes, making sausage in public is ugly.

 

[SeaGeo]

At the risk of sounding like I am defending Rivian's continued delays and poor communication, it may well be that IPO money was needed to sign contracts for construction. Another poster suggests that they should have stocked parts in advance given their back log of orders.

And of course they should have already hired the 1500 people they needed to hire a couple of weeks ahead of the IPO, right? They need over 1700 people right now.

Food for thought: These commitments for real estate/construction, human resources, parts, robots all take money, hence the IPO. Yes, making sausage in public is ugly.

Rivian hasnt been short on money for awhile. But trying to stretch that cash was exactly my point for saying they probably tried to last minute everything. No idea if that's actually causing them problems or not, but it seems to be.

 

[AndroidAppBundle]

Detroit Free Press article today; Hummer EV customer deliveries starting in next 2-3 weeks, with the Cadillac Lyriq following immediately after.

q4 Etron is available in Europe. Not sure what the delay is in North America.

Model Y performance deliveries only delayed till February.

Around me; ID4 already on dealer lots. Along with Kia Niro, Volvo XC40, Jaguar ipace, and Bolt euv

Rivian is letting too many other brands beat them to market.

it’s not shortages keeping these vehicles from being delivered. It’s some thing else.

I still think they have gremlins they are working out. And every special customer/former employee receiving their vehicle is currently bound by an NDA.

 

[dortreo]

And to be clear, it's not the delays that bother me. It's the arrogance to not communicate delays until after the fact, and not having the ethics or corporate flexibility for literally anyone at Rivian to tell Carter's guide "yeah, tell your dude he's not getting a truck so he's not shit up a creek."

This quote is key. Communications and transparency are the issues. Badness happens. Plans don't work. Delays are inevitable. But how they're communicated and managed is a conscious choice of the company. And if management decides the best strategy is to not inform guides and to break assurances to their earliest customers at the last minute, then I wonder what other strategies they were considering. Because the strategy where you leave your customer-facing employees in the dark and disrupt the plans of your charter "Rivian club" members doesn't seem like a particularly good one.

I hope Rivian puts as much thought into their communications as they do into their palette choices. The delivery estimator is a good first step toward improved transparency.

 

[EVTrucking]

Detroit Free Press article today; Hummer EV customer deliveries starting in next 2-3 weeks, with the Cadillac Lyriq following immediately after.

q4 Etron is available in Europe. Not sure what the delay is in North America.

Model Y performance deliveries only delayed till February.

Around me; ID4 already on dealer lots. Along with Kia Niro, Volvo XC40, Jaguar ipace, and Bolt euv

Rivian is letting too many other brands beat them to market.

it’s not shortages keeping these vehicles from being delivered. It’s some thing else.

I still think they have gremlins they are working out. And every special customer/former employee receiving their vehicle is currently bound by an NDA.

You can add Mach E too.

 

[DuckTruck]

Almost three years and counting.....but still hangin' in there.

Rivian is a start-up compared to the Fords, Chevrolets, and Dodges (no matter their name after selling to another company). Every automotive company is facing issues because of supply chain/chip shortage concerns. Over a hundred years in the business for some, and nobody is spared. Stadium parking lots filled with pickups that are over 99% complete, yet useless until chips representing technology from the last millenia arrive.

I'm likely down to my last 10,000 sunrises/sunsets, yet I find it hard to grouse delays when we are experiencing shit we've never experienced before. Maybe I'm patient to a fault, but I'd rather let the good folks in Normal/Plymouth/Palo Alto/Irvine work out the supply/programming issues before handing me the vehicle of my dreams.

There are platitudes, sayings, and taglines we hear all the time. They exist because they're true. If they weren't, they wouldn't have been known for generations. One of my favorites is "Buy once, cry once". Do I wish I was sitting in my R1T right now? Yep! Am I content waiting for them to get it right before letting me come back to Normal to drive it home? You bet your ass I am!

Everyone has their reasons for wanting their Rivian. I know I have mine. I want something special to get me places I've only dreamt of. I want something that gets me to those places without hurting those places, or the world we live in. So far, the only vehicle I've found that suits me in this pursuit is Rivian. It's more important to me to get it right, than it is to get it right now.

That's my take. Your opinions may vary.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!

 

[AndroidAppBundle]

You can add Mach E too.

Tons of Mach-E.

Consumers have cash. Consumers will buy EV. They will not wait for Rivian. Enthusiasts will. But that is niche.

I don’t think Rivian stock is worth what it is, given their ability to execute. They will be valuable, but these relatively really expensive and niche-ish grocery getters will only have so much appeal. I happen to like the looks, but there isn’t a shortage of vehicles pushing the envelope in serious ways.

by the time Rivian delivers, there will be Jeep brand EV hitting the showrooms - not good for Rivian, and their ideal potential customers.

It boggles the mind - that Rivian is 12 years old, has over 7000-8000 employees, raised 20 billion+. And its this experience.

I love Rivian, but they are making every mistake they can, along the way. Not enough to break the brand, but holy crap will it make you wonder if this vaporware will ever finish it’s Kickstarter campaign and deliver?

 

[RivianXpress]

https://apple.news/A-QBi6cznRP6w-EgZ9-GTOw

GM's Hummer EV has 329 mile range, "Edition 1" deliveries start in December

 

[ironpig]

Realistically they’ve known since July. But remember, the IPO was always the goal. Not whether or not you got your truck this year. It’s not fair and it’s not good customer service but it’s the reality of their situation. Without the IPO their viability after Covid was questionable. This is the reason they let us in on the IPO. It’s to soften the blow for the inevitable delay. I’m not defending or justifying it, just stating facts based on a little knowledge of the situation.

It’s been clear to a lot of us following the supply chain situation that they were in trouble. Let’s hope they stick to the new delivery windows but dont expect them to be early. I feel bad for those who were told 2021 and the guides that didn’t know any better.

 

[shrink]

Detroit Free Press article today; Hummer EV customer deliveries starting in next 2-3 weeks, with the Cadillac Lyriq following immediately after.

q4 Etron is available in Europe. Not sure what the delay is in North America.

Model Y performance deliveries only delayed till February.

Around me; ID4 already on dealer lots. Along with Kia Niro, Volvo XC40, Jaguar ipace, and Bolt euv

Rivian is letting too many other brands beat them to market.

it’s not shortages keeping these vehicles from being delivered. It’s some thing else.

I still think they have gremlins they are working out. And every special customer/former employee receiving their vehicle is currently bound by an NDA.

Only one of the vehicles you listed has the off-road capabilities of an R1T and the R1T beat the Hummer EV to market - and for a lot less $.

From the article linked by @RivianXpress

“GM has planned a slow rollout of Hummers, with the four trim levels rolling out over the course of almost three years. Edition 1 was originally planned to ship in Fall 2021 – so, given the pandemic and parts shortages, they’re basically on schedule.”

I don’t consider any of the other cars you listed as a direct R1S competitor since none of them can off road. I think the only other plug-in luxury SUV with off-road capability would be the Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe and that’s a PHEV and delayed as well. The Wrangler 4xe is out now and has some great off road credentials, but it’s a PHEV and is less luxurious.

That said, I’m sure there are luxury BEV shoppers who have no intention of ever off roading and if that’s the case, I guess I don’t fully understand the Rivian interest. Bringing the comparison back to Jeep, there are Cherokee and Grand Cherokee models with off-road DNA but configured to the on-street luxury SUV market (e.g. Overland, Altitude, SRT, and Trackhawk trims), but I don’t think Rivian has such options yet.

As frustrating and disappointing as these Rivian’s delays have been, I do wonder, as quoted above: “given the pandemic and parts shortages, they’re basically on schedule.”

 

[Atlrivian]

Only one of the vehicles you listed has the off-road capabilities of an R1T and the R1T beat the Hummer EV to market - and for a lot less $.

From the article linked by @RivianXpress

“GM has planned a slow rollout of Hummers, with the four trim levels rolling out over the course of almost three years. Edition 1 was originally planned to ship in Fall 2021 – so, given the pandemic and parts shortages, they’re basically on schedule.”

I don’t consider any of the other cars you listed as a direct R1S competitor since none of them can off road. I think the only other plug-in luxury SUV with off-road capability would be the Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe and that’s a PHEV and delayed as well. The Wrangler 4xe is out now and has some great off road credentials, but it’s a PHEV and is less luxurious.

That said, I’m sure there are luxury BEV shoppers who have no intention of ever off roading and if that’s the case, I guess I don’t fully understand the Rivian interest. Bringing the comparison back to Jeep, there are Cherokee and Grand Cherokee models with off-road DNA but configured to the on-street luxury SUV market (e.g. Overland, Altitude, SRT, and Trackhawk trims), but I don’t think Rivian has such options yet.

As frustrating and disappointing as these Rivian’s delays have been, I do wonder, as quoted above: “given the pandemic and parts shortages, they’re basically on schedule.”

Yea Rivian was first to market, but Hummer will be first to non-employees

 

[DB-EV]

Detroit Free Press article today; Hummer EV customer deliveries starting in next 2-3 weeks, with the Cadillac Lyriq following immediately after.

q4 Etron is available in Europe. Not sure what the delay is in North America.

Model Y performance deliveries only delayed till February.

Around me; ID4 already on dealer lots. Along with Kia Niro, Volvo XC40, Jaguar ipace, and Bolt euv

Rivian is letting too many other brands beat them to market.

it’s not shortages keeping these vehicles from being delivered. It’s some thing else.

I still think they have gremlins they are working out. And every special customer/former employee receiving their vehicle is currently bound by an NDA.

Agree. I was the one saying no NDA, but that is only for non employees.

Normal people could in theory be subject to NDA, but good luck to Rivian with enforcing that. With Rivian employees, they have the power of the paycheck, and probably the law, on their side. Could you imagine getting fired for violating an NDA as an employee and answering that question in your next interview?

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