flabyboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Messages
238
Reaction score
311
Location
Minnesota
Vehicles
Mazda 6
Occupation
Health Care
I also asked about range with different wheels and tires. As well as details on the infotainment system. More to come was the answer
Advertisement

 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
2,260
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
According to the data that Rivian has provided previously, the HP is the highest on the Large pack and slightly less on the Max pack. But that may have changed as they have been great at updating data on the vehicles but not telling us. Who knows?
I thought they were the same power, but the Max might be slightly slower to 60mph because of the extra weight of the larger battery?

HP and Torque should be the same, afaik.
 

Zoidz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gil
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
107
Reaction score
267
Location
PA
First Name
Gil
Vehicles
Chevy Avalanche, BMWs-X3,330cic,K1200RS bike
Occupation
Engineer
I thought they were the same power, but the Max might be slightly slower to 60mph because of the extra weight of the larger battery?

HP and Torque should be the same, afaik.
It's possible that they have tweaked the tuning of the inverters differently for the various battery packs to optimize battery performance, thereby leading to reduced hp and/or torque.
 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
2,260
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
It's possible that they have tweaked the tuning of the inverters differently for the various battery packs to optimize battery performance, thereby leading to reduced hp and/or torque.
Is Rivian using AC motors? Or DC? I assumed they were going with DC?
 

jimcgov3

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
930
Reaction score
1,821
Location
Jacksonville, Florida // Satellite Beach, FL
First Name
Jimmy
Vehicles
2017 Tesla Model S 75, Rivian R1T Reservation Holder
I thought they were the same power, but the Max might be slightly slower to 60mph because of the extra weight of the larger battery?

HP and Torque should be the same, afaik.
All of the info I stated above was from 2019. WAY back then it was 750hp for the then 135kWh pack and 700hp for the then 180kWh pack. Back that was ancient history and ALL details of that are also ancient history as the site has changed since then...

Even the battery pack sizes have changed but changed to what...we don't know...
 

Zoidz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gil
Joined
Feb 28, 2021
Messages
107
Reaction score
267
Location
PA
First Name
Gil
Vehicles
Chevy Avalanche, BMWs-X3,330cic,K1200RS bike
Occupation
Engineer
Is Rivian using AC motors? Or DC? I assumed they were going with DC?
I'm not aware if Rivian has ever explicitly stated they are using AC or BLDC, but they are almost certainly not using conventional DC motors, which have brushes. Purpose designed inverters are used with AC or BLDC (Brush-Less DC) motors.

Most likely they are using BLDC motors with PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) inverter control. That provides much better low speed control and torque compared to AC motors.

Richard Varauhar, VP of Propulsion at Rivian, has made a public statement that they use inverters to power the drive motors (excerpt below).

"The inverters are one of the jewels in the crown of this propulsion system, and are fully designed in-house. We designed a dual power inverter device integrated into the drive unit assembly, which allows very efficient control of two electric motors from one inverter assembly. We focused a lot on electrical efficiency from the battery to the inverters to the motors and on to the wheels. Having one dual combined inverter per axle allows us to maximize that electrical efficiency and therefore use the energy to maximize the vehicle’s range."
 

Dr. Byrd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
115
Location
SW Missouri
First Name
Michael
Vehicles
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2001 Mustang GT convertible
Occupation
Professor, consultant, farmer
That article tells me exactly why they are not doing CarPlay as well:

There is also an intelligent controls element in the thermal system. We can intelligently – through our connected car controls – think about where the vehicle is heading. If you’re on the way to a DC fast charge, for example, at a very high power rate, we know what the optimum temperature is and we can pull down the temperature of the battery using the chiller.

It also goes beyond just the thermal system itself. We’ve developed the complete module and battery pack in-house as a mechanical-electrical system, and we produce it in our brand-new Normal, Illinois assembly plant. In addition to the hardware for controls of the battery management system, we also developed the software, the algorithms and the control strategies and linked it all to our connected car platform (also developed ground-up at Rivian). So, we can not only control the functional performance of the battery for optimized life and performance, but we can vary the parameters of the battery management system tailored to individuals and how they use their vehicles, whether that be charging preference or energy throughput. We can tailor how we use the battery to optimize life and efficiency to give you the best performance that we can. So we have really intelligent control of the BMS linked through our connected car platform and how the user will use the vehicle.


Sounds like they absolutely need the first party Nav system to be in use at all times so the “intelligent controls” can know what’s going on and respond accordingly. If the nav was happening in a walled off software environment like CarPlay, then the vehicle control systems wouldn’t have access to what the user’s intent is (destination, charge stops en route, etc.) and couldn’t work it’s magic. Magic which is probably required in order to make the range numbers.

Interesting…
 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
2,260
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
Sounds like they absolutely need the first party Nav system to be in use at all times so the “intelligent controls” can know what’s going on and respond accordingly. If the nav was happening in a walled off software environment like CarPlay, then the vehicle control systems wouldn’t have access to what the user’s intent is (destination, charge stops en route, etc.) and couldn’t work it’s magic. Magic which is probably required in order to make the range numbers.
Baloney.

I use the factory navigation in my vehicle all the time while simultaneously using CarPlay for its superior messaging and music experience. They are not mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, what you stated is a reason Rivian can state for why a user should consider using their navigation (just MapBox, afaik), but it is NOT a justification for FORCING a user to have no other choice.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
1,449
Reaction score
2,507
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
Magic which is probably required in order to make the range numbers.
Range testing is done on a dyno, so not sure what the "destination" would be to increase the range numbers.
Having a vehicle mode specifically tailored to garner better EPA results on the dyno has been tried before. At least the public got a decent CCS network out of it.
 

Dr. Byrd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
115
Location
SW Missouri
First Name
Michael
Vehicles
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2001 Mustang GT convertible
Occupation
Professor, consultant, farmer
Baloney.

I use the factory navigation in my vehicle all the time while simultaneously using CarPlay for its superior messaging and music experience. They are not mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, what you stated is a reason Rivian can state for why a user should consider using their navigation (just MapBox, afaik), but it is NOT a justification for FORCING a user to have no other choice.
Ah yes, I agree with the sentiment. But remember, Rivian seems to be taking an Apple-style approach to product development. It’s less about what is technically possible for the user to do and more about what they want the user to do.
 

Dr. Byrd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
115
Location
SW Missouri
First Name
Michael
Vehicles
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2001 Mustang GT convertible
Occupation
Professor, consultant, farmer
Range testing is done on a dyno, so not sure what the "destination" would be to increase the range numbers.
Having a vehicle mode specifically tailored to garner better EPA results on the dyno has been tried before. At least the public got a decent CCS network out of it.
I interpret the quote to mean that they use destination information to adjust the battery management system’s behavior based on where you are going and what you plan to do when you get there (e.g., DCFC). Presumably this would impact range, but may be more impactful for things like charging performance or battery longevity.
 

CommodoreAmiga

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
1,299
Reaction score
2,260
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
Ah yes, I agree with the sentiment. But remember, Rivian seems to be taking an Apple-style approach to product development. It’s less about what is technically possible for the user to do and more about what they want the user to do.
Interesting that you choose to describe it as "Apple-style", despite Apple allowing competing navigation/mapping apps not only on-device, but also via CarPlay.
 

Dr. Byrd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
49
Reaction score
115
Location
SW Missouri
First Name
Michael
Vehicles
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2001 Mustang GT convertible
Occupation
Professor, consultant, farmer
Interesting that you choose to describe it as "Apple-style", despite Apple allowing competing navigation/mapping apps not only on-device, but also via CarPlay.
Yup. They want you to interact with their products the way they think you should (CarPlay) and for their platform to be a standard (competing apps). If you recall though, it was a while before they started allowing any other apps on the original iPhone, and they still keep tight control over the platform. It’s more about design philosophy than any specific instance. Apple wants as close as control as possible over their user’s experience with their products, they start tight, then loosen up as they get more comfortable (and bigger/safer market share). Given where Rivian is today, I’d say the Apple approach makes sense. But yes, as a techie, I want more control over my experience and I want CarPlay :).
 

Smithery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Messages
208
Reaction score
372
Location
California
Vehicles
Model X 100D, Volvo XC70, Mini Cooper JCW, R1T Max
That article tells me exactly why they are not doing CarPlay as well:
The only 3 possible reasons for not doing CarPlay are either contractual obligations to Amazon, short staffed in software and are trying to focus on the true deliver blockers, or they simply "don't want to" for whatever misguided reasons.

This article doesn't explain which of those 3 it is. It makes excuses that are irrelevant.

If the nav was happening in a walled off software environment like CarPlay, then the vehicle control systems wouldn’t have access to what the user’s intent is (destination, charge stops en route, etc.) and couldn’t work it’s magic. Magic which is probably required in order to make the range numbers.
There is no magic here that increases range. If the system could increase range by chilling the batteries when they're under extreme use, it would ALWAYS do it. Not just when the driver is on their way to DC fast charging.

It's a clever trick to increase the charge rate in some circumstances.

I for one would MUCH rather use vastly superior music and customizable navigation apps from CarPlay on my phone and then wait another 2 minutes at the charging stop... Then accept that Rivian knows best for me.
 
Advertisement

 
Advertisement
Top