What do you get for $67,500? Less and less, it appears.

[Ladiver]

After reading the S1, I am starting to wonder how much this vehicle is going to cost to own/operate. Rivian has been pretty ambitious on what they are going to offer and only now are they having to disclose the details. The previous announcement of the subscription had already turned me off, but now reading multiple subscriptions and an additional $10K for FSD?

Will my R1T even work after the "trial membership" has expired? Will they limit the battery capacity or the charge rate for non-subscription customers? What about Navigation and infotainment capabilities? I would expect (demand) that my vehicle performed the same on day 366 as it does on day 1. After allowing for some battery degradation, I would expect the vehicle to perform the same on day 1,825 (5 years) as it does on day 1. I should not have to spend an additional $50/month (or whatever they decide) just to keep the vehicle functional.

All this said, I am less and less excited to be an R1 owner but much more excited to become an investor! If Rivian can get a following like Tesla or Apple, they will have mounds of money coming in monthly and never really have to worry about the upfront sales. It is the recurring charges that make all of the money, that is why everything has moved towards the subscription model.

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[Scott]

I also want to know about what you need to pay a monthly fee for in terms of basic features: drive modes, navigation, map updates, entertainment etc

However, I have 0 concerns about fees for advanced autonomous driving. Solid lane keeping/centering and adaptive cruise for free already drastically reduces driver fatigue and no one is close to a system where you can totally cede control to the vehicle. So the timeframe where I would consider buying such a system is pretty far off.

 

[DucRider]

After reading the S1, I am starting to wonder how much this vehicle is going to cost to own/operate. Rivian has been pretty ambitious on what they are going to offer and only now are they having to disclose the details. The previous announcement of the subscription had already turned me off, but now reading multiple subscriptions and an additional $10K for FSD?

Will my R1T even work after the "trial membership" has expired? Will they limit the battery capacity or the charge rate for non-subscription customers? What about Navigation and infotainment capabilities? I would expect (demand) that my vehicle performed the same on day 366 as it does on day 1. After allowing for some battery degradation, I would expect the vehicle to perform the same on day 1,825 (5 years) as it does on day 1. I should not have to spend an additional $50/month (or whatever they decide) just to keep the vehicle functional.

All this said, I am less and less excited to be an R1 owner but much more excited to become an investor! If Rivian can get a following like Tesla or Apple, they will have mounds of money coming in monthly and never really have to worry about the upfront sales. It is the recurring charges that make all of the money, that is why everything has moved towards the subscription model.

Rivian never said FSD was included - only that all vehicles will have the hardware.
Your vehicle will work the same on Day 1,825 as it does on Day 1. If you want to add additional features, you can. If not, then don't. They will offer some free for 1 year, but you don't have to enable them, and then you won't "lose" them later.
Nobody has enough info the judge the value offered by their "Membership", but everything we have seen on the test drives/reviews will almost certainly be on the basic vehicle and not part of the membership package.
"Tank Turn" is a good candidate for a membership feature. As is FSD and the "guided trails" mentioned in one of the reviews.

 

[SeaGeo]

Rivian never said FSD was included - only that all vehicles will have the hardware.
Your vehicle will work the same on Day 1,825 as it does on Day 1. If you want to add additional features, you can. If not, then don't. They will offer some free for 1 year, but you don't have to enable them, and then you won't "lose" them later.
Nobody has enough info the judge the value offered by their "Membership", but everything we have seen on the test drives/reviews will almost certainly be on the basic vehicle and not part of the membership package.
"Tank Turn" is a good candidate for a membership feature. As is FSD and the "guided trails" mentioned in one of the reviews.

Playing devils advocate here, this does not read like "the hardware is included, but full funcionality is gonna cost you extra."

 

[Scott]

Playing devils advocate here, this does not read like "the hardware is included, but full funcionality is gonna cost you extra."

Honestly I am highly suspicious that any car sold to consumers today has the hardware they will need by the time real autonomous driving is a reality. The idea that you can predict 5, 10,15 years out what hardware complicated AI will need is pretty optimistic.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Playing devils advocate here, this does not read like "the hardware is included, but full funcionality is gonna cost you extra."

The cynical part of me immediately thought “oh, so they’re just going to call their new features something else. Driver MAX!

 

[SeaGeo]

The cynical part of me immediately thought “oh, so they’re just going to call their new features something else. Driver MAX!

DriverLESS.

 

[PastyPilgrim]

FSD, especially from a startup, is so far away. Even Tesla, Google, etc. are years away from it. And then even when it does come, there's going to be years of regulatory meandering and weird interstate nonsense. When those days do come, I can guarantee that Tesla, Rivian, etc. will write off being able to support their older vehicles. It would take far too much engineering resources to make e.g. 2030 software work well (and most importantly safely) on 2021 hardware when all of their focus has been on 2028-2032 hardware. We can barely get basic security updates on phones and other tech that is more than a few years old.

 

[Scott]

FSD, especially from a startup, is so far away. Even Tesla, Google, etc. are years away from it. And then even when it does come, there's going to be years of regulatory meandering and weird interstate nonsense. When those days do come, I can guarantee that Tesla, Rivian, etc. will write off being able to support their older vehicles. It would take far too much engineering resources to make e.g. 2030 software work well (and most importantly safely) on 2021 hardware when all of their focus has been on 2028-2032 hardware. We can barely get basic security updates on phones and other tech that is more than a few years old.

Exactly. This is what makes Tesla’s FSD such a scam. It is tied to the car, not the owner. So you pay 10k for FSD on a car that very likely will never have FSD capability. And even if it did, chances are you sold it by the time it happens.

 

[cwinters]

FSD, especially from a startup, is so far away. Even Tesla, Google, etc. are years away from it. And then even when it does come, there's going to be years of regulatory meandering and weird interstate nonsense. When those days do come, I can guarantee that Tesla, Rivian, etc. will write off being able to support their older vehicles. It would take far too much engineering resources to make e.g. 2030 software work well (and most importantly safely) on 2021 hardware when all of their focus has been on 2028-2032 hardware. We can barely get basic security updates on phones and other tech that is more than a few years old.

But they will have FSD on trails going less than 10mph. This is the Jurassic Park mode. No other company will have the sensors out there to record this other than Rivian. Black bear pass? No problem, we have the exact path programmed in. Sit back and enjoy the scenery. Grab some bubbly from the great tunnel as you make your way back to Telluride.

 

[Scott]

But they will have FSD on trails going less than 10mph. This is the Jurassic Park mode. No other company will have the sensors out there to record this other than Rivian. Black bear pass? No problem, we have the exact path programmed in. Sit back and enjoy the scenery. Grab some bubbly from the great tunnel as you make your way back to Telluride.

This feature sounds real cool. But I don’t believe it . Rocks move on trails. Nature isn’t a constant.
I do believe they could have maps to trail heads with picture and reviews, expected charge needed, etc etc.

But FSD off-road? Don’t bank on it.

 

[Driveout]

Pay up or this could be your truck. We are the evil Rivian masters of the universe, just give us direct access to your bank account... Really, there must be future short sellers here trying to stir up controversy. Added features mean added to the remarkable features which already out class the segment. FSD for $10k, who cares, I don't need it. I actually like driving.

 

[sevengroove]

DriverLESS.

Almost there ... I think it's gotta be Driver- (as in minus) ?

 

[DucRider]

Playing devils advocate here, this does not read like "the hardware is included, but full funcionality is gonna cost you extra."

 

[moosehead]

But they will have FSD on trails going less than 10mph. This is the Jurassic Park mode. No other company will have the sensors out there to record this other than Rivian. Black bear pass? No problem, we have the exact path programmed in. Sit back and enjoy the scenery. Grab some bubbly from the great tunnel as you make your way back to Telluride.

Just hire Jeeves. I want the damn helm.

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