Weird, R1's are delayed yet again, but amazon van has no delays?

E.S.

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... Saying that, for example, FL closed its last coal plant does not mean that FL does not use electricity generated by coal.
Last I checked, FL doesn't have its electricity generated from outside the their section of the grid. More so, they've been selling it to other states. I will say this, just because FL doesn't use coal plants, doesn't mean they still don't use other fossil fuels (natural gas as one example), but last I checked they're not using electricity generated by coal.
 

DuckTruck

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Nuclear "could" have been an option but the perception to it is bad. Smaller nuclear that reuses the larger plants material is a promising local generation that could help alot of the rural areas in northern California, especially with the cannabis grows.
Power generation from many sources, along with transportation improvements, are what any "infrastructure" program should focus on. For those who live in large metropolitan areas, mass transit solutions or are a great way to get people out of cars and lessen the need for urban road-building and space dedicated to parking. For those who don't live in urban areas, the roadways need to be improved, including the thousands and thousands of bridges that get very poor ratings by State and Federal agencies.

When roads and bridges go unimproved, the cost to repair them goes up exponentially over time. A bridge failure is catastrophic, as we experienced 13 years ago, when the I-35W bridge collapsed in Minneapolis, killing 13 people and injuring close to another 150. The signs were there, but were not properly addressed. Giving the bridges and roads the attention now will ultimately saves lives, resources, and tax dollars, while also providing a huge number of jobs. Building out the charging system while addressing our electrical grid will pay huge benefits as we move toward more EVs.

I'm not trying to be political, but this nation needs transportation to work as well as possible for everything else to work well.

I better stop now, before my aging soapbox collapses. It was built well before I put on my "COVID 20". 😬
 

Craigins

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Last I checked, FL doesn't have its electricity generated from outside the their section of the grid. More so, they've been selling it to other states. I will say this, just because FL doesn't use coal plants, doesn't mean they still don't use other fossil fuels (natural gas as one example), but last I checked they're not using electricity generated by coal.
The "grid" does not work like that. Florida is part of the Eastern Interconnect. Essentially 3 "grids" for the US, WIC, EIC, and ERCOT. Power plants energize the grid, not states. There isn't a gate on state lines that say "no power comes into the state", physics determines the flows.

Do not try to compare electricity generation and transport with physical transportation like water or natural gas.
 

E.S.

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The "grid" does not work like that. Florida is part of the Eastern Interconnect. Essentially 3 "grids" for the US, WIC, EIC, and ERCOT. Power plants energize the grid, not states. There isn't a gate on state lines that say "no power comes into the state", physics determines the flows.

Do not try to compare electricity generation and transport with physical transportation like water or natural gas.

Emphasis on the bold-faced portion: I wasn't. I am going by what a family member has told me (whom has a Masters in Electrical Engineering, used to work for FPL, and now manages the south eastern inter-connect grid of the U.S.). As for what he mentioned, FL is no longer using electricity generated by coal though they still use plants using natural gas and Nuclear. Mind you this was a conversation we had about 3 months ago (I can ask him to go in to details and see if he'll do it. But no promises).
 

mkhuffman

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Because private industry in capitalists societies has proven consistently that profit for themselves takes precedence over “the greater good”. Private industry will, and has proven this over time, knowingly destroy the environment if they personally can profit from it. That’s why we have regulations.
That is not true. You can point to a few bad actors but in general capitalists are very good at taking care of their customers, because if they don't have customers, they go out of business. The government, on the other hand, is a monopoly, and the government forces you to be their customer. You cannot choose an alternative if the government does it, and if they do it poorly.

And when they do it poorly, does the government go out of business? Or when the government performs poorly, do they just raise your taxes and make you pay more even though they are doing a bad job? Who is more accountable to the public, government, or for profit companies? For profit companies are WAY more accountable. A monopoly is hardly accountable at all. I guess every 2 years you get a chance to make them accountable, but a private company has to satisfy their customers every day.
 

mkhuffman

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this much is clear. In any business making things, the largest customer, with real actual sold orders will always be #1


This is demonstrably false. it’s like saying the fire department would have more, better fire trucks and they’d be cheaper too if government didn’t run fire departments.

Where I live, electricity is around $0.08/kWh. The electricity/natural gas company is owned by the government. Rates are overseen by a public utility board which reviews any changes.

in the next province over, the government privatized their electrical utility. Their rates are around $0.13/kWh at the low end if you’re lucky to be in an area that is on that tier, and customer service and reliabilty has diminished since privatization etc.

How well has deregulation of the energy sector, allowing the “free market“ to decide worked out for, say, Texas?
You are comparing a highly regulated private company with a highly regulated public utility. It is interesting to me how you compare the cost of electricity for the government run monopoly with a government controlled monopoly, and leave out how much of your taxes go towards the government run one. Do you know? And maybe your rates should be higher to cover maintenance and equipment upgrades.

How do you know the rate you are paying isn't too high anyway? The province next door might have much higher operating costs due to many factors you conveniently leave out. Maybe they turned it over to the private company because the government was not able to run it properly, and they thought a private company could do it better. But then they regulate the private company so it cannot run it the way it needs to be run to provide reliable power.

Your example isn't anything like a free market at all. And Texas? They also heavily regulate their utilities. How is that a free market? See what happens when government runs it, like they are trying to do in Texas? Or California? Or your province next door? Government sucks at running just about everything.

Hey I know, let's turn our food production and distribution over to the government monopoly. What do you think would happen if we did that? Do you think you would have food shortages and grocery stores with empty shelves? Do you really think the government can run things better than the free market? Really? Then let's have the government monopoly run everything. Then we will be in utopia. Actually, hell. That is where we will be.
 

P.S.Mangelsdorf

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I find it a little weird that he R1T and R1S are delayed for what ever reason yet the Amazon vans aren't. makes me think this isn't a chip issue but something else
maybe epa figures aren't up to par or something specific to R1's ? or is it maybe they have a hard deadline for specific amount of amazon vans that need to be out by end of year?

I dont know, just speculating here. but i would like to hear out other peoples opinion on this.
1: Its not clear what the exact timeline for the Amazon vans is, and whether delays have or will occur.

2: A delivery van requires far fewer chips than a luxury truck. No window motors, no entertainment systems, etc. A few chips in the inverter, a few in the navigation, a few in communication. The R1T/S will have them all over the place. Comfort, entertainment, self driving sensors, etc.

3: I expect Rivian knows they can't get away with the quality control issues Tesla has when it comes to consumer vehicles. But panel gaps don't matter that much on a delivery van.

To add to this, anyone find it even weirder that CS is saying that only the R1T are delayed and not the R1S ? In the configurator the R1S still says January 2022 for non launch edition while R1T now say Spring 2022.

They seem to use a lot of the same part/components aside from maybe the bed area, could the bed components maybe the reason for the delay?
I'm not surprised. Most likely, its a combination of chips AND other components made overseas. Something I've heard others in the industry discuss in various forms (interviews, podcasts, etc) is that there is a problem with getting shipping containers where they need to be. The combination of a lot of people buying consumer electronics (for work- and play-from-home) (which is also the cause of the chip shortage) and reduced purchases of American farm goods in Asia has lead to a crap ton of containers on the wrong side of the planet.

No car is made entirely in one building any more. Parts come from all over the place, and supply chains are totally messed up because of Covid, and that damn boat shutting down the Suez for a week.

That's my understanding of it. I could be completely wrong.

I'll also add, my industry (design and construction) has seen massive issues with prices of raw materials, and construction costs have swung wildly over the last 12-14 months. What was rising slowly, fell quickly, and then spiked upwards. There are signs of it calming down but its going to take a little while. I'm sure that's pretty rough on a start up.
 

Gshenderson

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There’s a big difference between socialism and regulation. But the current herd mentality of certain people doesn’t allow for free and independent thought. Everything requires a negative label and no real thought. It’s a sad place our country has gotten to with self serving politicians (on both sides) spewing nothing but hate and division. Have a blessed day folks!
 

Gshenderson

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That is not true. You can point to a few bad actors but in general capitalists are very good at taking care of their customers, because if they don't have customers, they go out of business. The government, on the other hand, is a monopoly, and the government forces you to be their customer. You cannot choose an alternative if the government does it, and if they do it poorly.

And when they do it poorly, does the government go out of business? Or when the government performs poorly, do they just raise your taxes and make you pay more even though they are doing a bad job? Who is more accountable to the public, government, or for profit companies? For profit companies are WAY more accountable. A monopoly is hardly accountable at all. I guess every 2 years you get a chance to make them accountable, but a private company has to satisfy their customers every day.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. And either I misread your original post, or you misread mine response. My statement was in regards to the free market being allowed to operate unfettered by regulation. Your response seems to be about government actually running things vs regulating them. I tend to agree with you on many of those points.

On the regulatory aspect, though, even if I wrote a treatise here on world history and how numerous private companies have knowingly and intentionally done massive environmental damage when allowed to do so in the absence of appropriate regulation and oversight, it wouldn’t change anyone’s mind who’s already decided “govt is evil”. They’ve decided what herd they are in, and will blindly follow.
 
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kylealden

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I have a gut feeling we're not going to hammer out the world's first lasting consensus on the relative merits of capitalism and socialism here on the Rivian forums
 
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